Pro union/Anti Union ?

Tractors4u · Aug 9, 2004

I'm usually one to bite into these threads but I will throw my 2 cents worth in. I believe at one time in this country unions were a necessity. Before there were laws about overtime, minimum wage, and safety of the workers, a union was the only way to insure that employees were treated justly. Now the only reason I see for it is to get a pay raise every few years when the contract is up. I work for the federal government at a NASA center. We have a union. The union can't strike, there is no collective bargaining. From what I see the only thing this union provides is a voice if:

a. Employee feels they were wronged in some way
b. Employee wants to fight a parking ticket

In my job I track the office space/building assignments and moving employees to those buildings. We have to present space plans to the union for their approval. Gees, these people have a sweet government job with a computer, nice furniture, air conditioning and they are worried that the cafeteria is in the building next door instead of the building they are in.

viking · Aug 9, 2004

I was union once. Where I worked the union rewarded seniority not production, seniority, seniority, seniority. So, other more productive workers with less seniority increased their workload to make up for slackers who knew they were protected by the union. Unions in that environment make staying in business difficult, but hey the money is good while it lasts.

gsganzer · Aug 9, 2004

I do a lot of work with the boilermakers and pipefitters unions and I've worked at sites that are union and non-union. If someone chooses to join a union, it's for their own reasons.

I have a problem with the whole union philosophy for this one reason:
One of the main duties of the union is to negotiate an average wage for it's members. I don't consider my skills "just average", I don't consider my work ethic "just average", I don't consider my dependability "just average" and I don't consider my contribution to my employer as "just average". I'd rather have the flexibility to negotiate my own wage, based on MY worth to the employer.

Boondox · Aug 9, 2004

I think there were times when unions served a useful purpose to stop abusive conditions. And I think there might be a time in the future when unions could prevent fiscal shenanigans if they weren't the cause of them in the first place.

But in my opinion unions would be a heck of a lot more constructive if they took the form of professional organizations that insisted on a certain level of competence and productivity in exchange for wage and benefit concessions. That way their rewards would be based on demonstrated competence, not tenure. And they would have something to please both the workers and the management.

Pete

JimR · Aug 9, 2004

( I do a lot of work with the boilermakers and pipefitters unions and I've worked at sites that are union and non-union. If someone chooses to join a union, it's for their own reasons.

I have a problem with the whole union philosophy for this one reason:
One of the main duties of the union is to negotiate an average wage for it's members. I don't consider my skills "just average", I don't consider my work ethic "just average", I don't consider my dependability "just average" and I don't consider my contribution to my employer as "just average". I'd rather have the flexibility to negotiate my own wage, based on MY worth to the employer. )

Well spoken.

Golfgar4 · Aug 9, 2004

I agree with your statements.

At one point early in my career, I was in a situation where new employees had the option of joining the union or not. Shortly thereafter that changed, and all new employees were required to join.

Anyway, I was not planning on joing. Of course, the "active" members worked real hard at trying to get me to join. They used reasoning such as, "If you don't join, it'll look like we're divided." Or, "We want to protect your job." Or, "What if you get into trouble. You'll need someone to look out for you."

I tried to be as polite as I could be with these people, but because they would not let up, I finally had to start explaining in no uncertain terms that, my not joining would hardly constitute being divided, and as long as I do my job the way I'm supposed to and the way I want to do it, I'm protecting it myself, and if I get into trouble, it'll be my own doing and I'll accept responsibility for whatever I've done. I don't need or want someone who really doesn't have a clue about the particular situation that resulted in any trouble trying to get me out of it. And I also explained that if I did screw up, I'd be the first one to admit it and accept the consequences. I sure didn't need to pay a union $$$ each month for that!

Unions used to have their place. They were created for very good reasons. Unfortunately, they became so powerful they decided that they could run the companies better than the company officers. I believe that, as a result, unions have unintentionally created many of the labor problems our country is trying to deal with today.

gsganzer · Aug 9, 2004

"I believe that, as a result, unions have unintentionally created many of the labor problems our country is trying to deal with today"

Golfgar4,
I believe you're right. I'm all for collective bargaining, if it suits someone's needs. Unfortunately, it's become a form of labor extortion in some industries. The airline industry is one that's been hit especially bad.

thcri · Aug 10, 2004

( I do a lot of work with the boilermakers and pipefitters unions and I've worked at sites that are union and non-union. If someone chooses to join a union, it's for their own reasons. )

I guess one could not have said it any better. The problem I have is I am a merit-shop, each person is at liberty to negotiate their own wage/benefits what ever. And I pay each employee based on what they can do not by what the average can do.

The thing that I really have against the unions right now is the power they use to try and convert my company to a union company. They have literally pulled in front of my employees driving down the road(basically running them off the road) to try and organise them. They will go out on jobsites and pull my guys off the job and try and talk to them. They are allowed to talk bad about merit shops but legally I can't say anything to my employees about union shops. They will take employees away from me by promising them the world and then they will put the guy on a job for a year and then send them off to the bench for two years and place them in line with senority. I have seen that trend for so many years. And now with times being slow it is even worse. They don't have work for their guys but yet they are trying to take people away from me.

Ok I vented enough, I was going to stay out of this thread but decided to put my 2 cents in, What I am saying is every person should have the right to be union or not and every company should have the right to be union or not. I should not have to worry everyday about who the union is out there trying to convert and if they are going to force their ways on me. I thought this country was free and I should have the right to be Pro Union or Not.

murph

Taylortractornut · Aug 10, 2004

I straddle the fence on the union thing it has its good views and bad points but the thing about them here is when Heil truck bodies here tried it and you disagreed with some thing you got clipped. My grandfather was in the mechanics union after WW2 and retired early. The big thing I hate about it around these parts in the equipment operators union They pay every one the same the sorry hands make as much as the good hands. Every job I worked on used pay as an incentive to do better. One union had a wlkout at Christmas and a friend of mine was in desperate need of work he stepped off the picket line to feed his family and later that day had his car vandalized. Im not for that mentality but thats a rare thing for these parts. I ve only had 2 union operator jobs stayed at one one whole week and the other about8 hours. I didnt like not being able to move my truck crane without a teamster, I also didnt like sitting in one spot while waiting for a Rigger to come from a hall 30 miles away to move a load of rebar. The thing that ruins them here is alot of the buddies get in the upper ranks and its all buds taking care of buds.