Problem with Tilt Meter

[JerryT]

I had the same problem with my first Tilt Meter. I had mounted it with a bolt to metal on the tractor. Rick sent me another meter (no charge as always) and I mounted that with the double sided tape onto the plastic hood of my tractor and have not had a problem since. That certainly emplies that it is an electric charge problem of some sort.

 

[pruntyc]

Rick, while it true that I had not mentioned the full refund, that you made me. I was not faulting you or the meter, that is why I hadn't. I am only trying to find an answer to how to make it work for me. I also tryed the tape install, after I had drilled the holes, in my hood, wish now I had tryed that first, but I didn't find that in the instructions. The tape has lost it power now, so am going to town in a day or two, to buy some more, so I can try different places to stick it, to try and find a place that might work even if it may be harder to see. So forgive me Rick for not mentioning the refund, I really meant no harm to you, and thinking about it, I know I should have.

 

[JohnMiller3]

Tilt Meter--WAY BEYOND THE CALL OF DUTY !

<font color="blue"> ( A full refund has been given, INCLUDING shipping. Also, a
second tiltmeter was sent at no charge…

I will do everything possible to make the customer
happy. I stand behind my meters 100%. You got a problem,
it will be addressed by me personally, and immediately. ) </font> – RBManufacturing

Talk about going WAY BEYOND THE CALL OF DUTY… /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Rick… if we ever met… First I will shake your hand, give Brenda a big hug... & I will buy you and your partner Brenda “Steak & Lobster” dinners… /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rick… you really are Incredible !!! I sure hope other companies will stand & take notice… and follow your business model… /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[_RaT_]

I'm glad you clarified it Rick even though I think those of us who know you also know of your integrity. I was thinking about this phenomenom last night and why its occuring to this guy when there are times out here on a dry north wind day with more static electricity then at any other time and yet nothing is affected including the tiltmeter on my old L48. Static electricity, it's a weird thing.

 

[Nelson]

I had been holding off getting a meter but after reading your post I went on your web site and ordered a digital one. I am looking forward to getting it installed on my Kioti DK 45. It will be nice for grading driveways and such as well as roll over protection.

 

[RBManufacturing]

pruntyc,
No problem sir. As I mentioned on the phone, please try
beefing up the mounting area. A small piece of metal or wood
under hood, and pass the bolts through it. Maybe this will be
enough to fix the problem. Where are you located? I have a
new oil I would like to try. I just had Brenda order it while I
am doing this message. When it arrives, I will send you
another meter with the new oil. We gonna fix this puppy, or
shoot it!!!!!

John Miller III. THANK YOU, and ALL YOU GUYS!!!.

Brenda says she likes her steak med. rare. And we'll buy!

We will be at the Show in Louisville Ky. In Feb.
Thanks, Rick

 

[fivestring]

Rick, I still haven't mounted mine yet. We've had nothing but rain the past 2 weeks. I'll let you know if I have a problem. Thank you in advance.

 

[CTyler]

Rick, I don't claim to be an expert on this, just some thoughts.....

Grinding the glass at 150x creates a flatter surface when viewed with magnification. This creates a better surface for a static charge build up. It will build more charge than a surface with more irregularities. How much difference there is I don't know.

The particular tractors that had trouble may have a vibration pattern that is more circular than back and forth. This can enhance the static build up. That pattern creates more surface contact and seperation.

Static can be fun or frustrating. Even though glass in generally though of as non conductive(insulator) it will conduct high voltages and generate surface charges.

I'm wondering of having some carbon in the plastic(?) would make a difference. However this would still require a ground path to something. The spraying with water is allowing the charge to dissipate into the atmoshpere from what I understand about it. Moisture and impurities in the air can provide a path for static charges.

With the very few problems you have had its probably not worth it in production except from a curiousity point of view.

I wonder if the problem vehicles ever had a wax or surface product applied that enhances(attracts) a static build up.

I find this problem very interesting.

 

[RBManufacturing]

CTyler,
Thank you for the thoughts. I am no expert on the glass part
either. I rely on my glass supplier for the specifics. I started
out with stock glass tubes, but on the models with very little
bend in the tube, like my model #76 ten degree one, the
ball hesitated alot. The more we polished the tube, the better
that one seemed to work. You are correct that the ball has a
circular motion on the ones that stick. This new oil I am
going to try is slightly thicker. Maybe this will slow the ball.
I use to be able to reproduce that motion on an old air
compressor I had with a slightly bent output shaft. Then one
day it went from about 2500 rpm to 0 rpm in about 1 second
when the rod went through the block. I bought it for $10.00
at a garage sale. Used it for a year. got my moneys worth.
Even though this is a rare problem, I am still going to try to
come up with a solution. One sticking out of thousands is too
many. pruntyc says he will try the brace soon. Hoping this helps. At first when this happened a few years ago, I found
it interesting also. Now, I would rather have a root canal
than to hear it happened again. Thanks, Rick

 

[diggerdave]

ok this is coming outta left field perhaps (Seattle Wa). but two questions from someone who knows nothing.

1. won't a bubble tube, like on a carpenters level work? why is a ball preferred? (ok this was a 2 part question)


2. before I read Rick's post and explanation of the problem I found myself thinking could it be something else
other than static? Like warpage? this would happen in the hot weather, water would cool things down and
allow the metal or plastic or whatever to go back to it's normal shape. Well could it be? I would presume to
answer my own question here by saying the glass would have to break before it was able to warp enough
to make the ball stick.

Ok if I sneak in a 3rd question here? Is anybody using the new dual axis meter on their tractors? If so to what
benefit? I have 5ac of very rough and rolly ground lots of opportunity to get angle the wrong way.

dave

 

[Slamfire]

You would probably find the bubble broken up into one fairly large with some little ones on the ends. Thats caused by vibration, it happens to carpenters quite often, and they just smack it with their hand to break the surface tension that makes the little bubbles. If I'd been inventing this meter I'd most likely went with a damped weighted rod, like the one used for the fore and aft indicator on the two axis model. Maybe it wouldn't work, but that's what I'd have tried first.

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> I have done EXTENSIVE research, and found
that static IS the problem when one sticks.
</font>

Rick,

This problem is very interesting. Could I ask that you share with us how you determined that static was indeed the problem?

I mean, as compared to a possible magnetic problem if the tiltmeter in question used a steel ball.

After a couple decades in maintenance in the steel industry, I know how difficult some problems are to solve and also know that what appears to be the problem is, in the end, not the root cause all the time.

But now I am retired...and those days are just memories... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

All the best in your quest for a solution!

 

[RBManufacturing]

Hi Guys,
Using an air bubble instead of ball has a few inherent
problems. First, the bubble has to be fairly large, (thus not
very accurate) because the liquid expands. A small bubble
lets to much pressure build up, and the tube pops. My very
first meters were pendulum type. Either the pendulum
swings too freely, or not free enough. Temp., dust, moisture,
all effected its movement. I looked at the problem being
magnetic field, but do not think it is culprit. First, the ball is
stainless steel. Non magnetic. Second, when one sticks, it
stays stuck when tractor is turned off. Holding static charge???
Could hold a magnetic charge also I suppose. And, the ball
works again when hit with water, and discharges. We also
used a glass ball and it still stuck. Don't believe glass would
hold a magnetic charge. I'm not a rocket scientist, but this
small RARE problem has been a real challenge. What works
to fix one has not always fixed another. As I said, it is rare,
but we are going to keep trying until it never happens at all.
Thanks, Rick

 

[buck1]

I believe it's a combination of static electricity and resonant frequencies. I've been looking at times when my tiltmeter has stuck and it always seems to be when my tractor is operating at 2600 RPM. If I see it stick, I just lower the RPM's and in a few seconds it frees back up. If I have the bushhog on (hence PTO engaged) and operate at 2600 RPM, it sticks fairly often. If I'm running up and down the road at 2600 and no PTO, it never sticks. Every tractor will vibrate through a huge frequency range that changes depending on implements and engine "rev's". When that frequency matches the resonant frequency of the tiltmeter, it will seize up. I wonder what would happen if you mounted one of these things on a fairly tight spring system rather than the plate it's currently made on????

 

[Mike_Dumond]

OK, here's one from deep left field. What if the back side of the tube was coated with a metalic, reflective material and then grounded to the vehicle? It might fix the static problem and allow for a mirrored effect possibly improving visability of the ball.

Incidently, the dual axis indicator is fantastic. A little free swining on the fore/aft, but otherwise, truly outstanding. I wonder if fluid damping would be an option here?

 

[diggerdave]

glad to hear that about the DA model(dual axis). I ordered one from Rick last friday and reading a few more posts.
I like the idea of knowing the incline before getting sideways on the slope.

interesting and useful thread.
thanks,
dave

 

[CTyler]

I'm curious if you have tried a dampning material to isolate the vibration causing the static build up. Something like Sorbothane as an example. This works very well in audio applications, keeps my CD player from skipping when the sub-puppy is thumpin anyway.

 

[RBManufacturing]

HI CTYLER,
I TRIED A 1/4 IN. THICK FOAM RUBBER ONE TIME. SINCE
THE BOLTS STILL MADE A SOLID CONNECTION, IT DID NOT
HELP. IF I USE THE FOAM WITHOUT THE BOLTS, AND GLUE
THE INDICATOR TO THE FOAM, AND THE FOAM TO THE
BRACKET, IT MIGHT WORK. I AM SURE WE WILL GET THIS
THING DONE SOONER OR LATER. I AM WORKING ON A NEW
FIX IDEA NOW. I SENT OUT TWO MORE INDICATORS TO
CPRUNTY YESTERDAY. BOTH HAVE NEW OILS. I HAVE AN
ELECTRONICS ENGINEER WORKING ON IT ALSO. HE HAS
ONLY BEEN ABLE TO GET ONE TO STICK. IT TOOK HOURS
OF EXPERIMENTING TO GET JUST THE RIGHT VIBRATION.
I CALLED 23 OF MY TRACTOR CUSTOMERS FROM LAST
YEAR THE LAST TWO DAYS. NONE HAVE HAD A PROBLEM
WITH STICKING. I'LL GET IT SOON. THANKS, RICK

 

[CTyler]

Whats nice about the Sorbothane is that it has actuall dampning properties. It has both solid and viscous dampning properties. I'm sure there are others out there, this is just the one I'm familiar with. If it was located between the mount and the meter it would not matter if the bolts were connected to the tractor.

Good luck and update us on your fix.

 

[BigEddy]

Rick - you might want to change the resonation properties of the subject tilt-meters. A couple of ways to do that. Simplest - Add some weight to the meter - just stick it on for now to test it out - I'd add a couple of wheel weights for starters - this will change the frequency of the resonation.

Resonation is an interesting problem - but not difficult to overcome. By changing the weight of the device, you change the frequency at which it resonates. If that doesn't fix it, try adding a brace to the top of the unit such that you have a 3 point mount rather than a cantilever mount. Now it won't vibrate anywhere near the same amount for the same base vibration.

If resonation / vibration is the root of the problem, try these approaches to eliminate the vibration then see if it was in fact the cause.