Progress!

[Torvy]

Title? Subway?

Just got back from hauling more stuff out there. Here's a shot of the backsplash. Still needs grout.

 

[ponytug]

Doesn't the label say "Ruud"?

The counters (and indeed the whole house) look gorgeous!

All the best, Peter

 

[Torvy]

Doesn't the label say "Ruud"?

The counters (and indeed the whole house) look gorgeous!

All the best, Peter

Thanks. It has taken way too long, but I did the design myself. Some great input from some of the sub contractors (electrician is a good guy).

 

[Torvy]

Label does say Ruud! I didn't look that close, just snapped the picture.

The quote was for Amana...now I have another bone to pick with the builder...A/C is one thing I will spe d on for good quality. I really wish I could have my Trane. Literally has saved me hundreds of dollars a month and at more comfortable Temps than its predecessor.

 

[Sigarms]

View attachment 814585

This is what the builder's guy installed. I think maybe it is Amana. Limited choices. We had a really nice variable speed Trane in the old house.

Was it a HVAC company who installed that air handler?

No nothing about Santa Fe dehumidifiers, but they are going to tie it into the ductwork aren't they?

I could look like an idiot for asking, but where is the return air at and did they taped the drain pan to the air handler?

 

[Torvy]

Was it a HVAC company who installed that air handler?

No nothing about Santa Fe dehumidifiers, but they are going to tie it into the ductwork aren't they?

I could look like an idiot for asking, but where is the return air at and did they taped the drain pan to the air handler?

It was supposed to be the HVAC guys. I wasn't there to make sure, but they sub to a local place. I don't think it is complete yet. It has been 100+ and I think they needed to get things cooler so others could work.

The return (I believe) is over the door I am standing in when I took the picture. It looked to be maybe 2'×3'. The door you can see is to the outside. I had to push a bit when we negotiated to have handler in this room rather than in attic. Attic in TX in summer is dangerous. I also didn't want to have to climb to do basic maintenance.

 

[Sigarms]

I see my first mistake. What I thought was a drain pan under the air handler looks to be a filter rack for a air filter, which leads me to believe that they cut a hole out in the wood stand the air handler is on, which means the return on the air handler is standing directly over the dehumidifier?

They are running an open return into the room with the air handler for the entire house with no return ductwork?

Looks to be a big house, more than one system?

FYI Ruud is Rheem. Personally, I'd take one of those over American Standard (which is Trane). Generally however, the install accounts for 90% of being problem free or nothing but problems.

 

[Torvy]

I see my first mistake. What I thought was a drain pan under the air handler looks to be a filter rack for a air filter, which leads me to believe that they cut a hole out in the wood stand the air handler is on, which means the return on the air handler is standing directly over the dehumidifier?

They are running an open return into the room with the air handler for the entire house with no return ductwork?

Looks to be a big house, more than one system?

FYI Ruud is Rheem. Personally, I'd take one of those over American Standard (which is Trane).

I'll take some better pictures on the next trip (M or W). These were just to give my wife an update on progress as she is in SA for work.

House is just under 2000 Sq ft. Only one system on this one.

I don't know enough about the brands, per se, but have heard installation matters. The thing with our Trane is that it was a high end model with true variable speed. I tend to be brand loyal when I find something that works as advertised. It is hard for a consumer to tell which guys really know their stuff.

 

[Sigarms]

I tend to be brand loyal when I find something that works as advertised. It is hard for a consumer to tell which guys really know their stuff.

At the end of the day, it's not the brand that works best, it's the installation procedures by the company installing the equipment that works the best. EVERY manufucaturer has issues from time to time, that's a given.

When the house was designed, there were no plans to run both supply and return ductwork in each room of the house?

Just do yourself a favor, when the system is started up, ensure that you have them measure your static pressure along with CFM's. You'll find the blower data and the correct parimeters for SP from the manufacturer with the air handler instructions.

Honestly, if they are only running a "open" bottom air return off the air handler that is placed directly over the dehumidifier, I'm kind of scratching my head.

 

[Torvy]

At the end of the day, it's not the brand that works best, it's the installation procedures by the company installing the equipment that works the best. EVERY manufucaturer has issues from time to time, that's a given.

When the house was designed, there were no plans to run both supply and return ductwork in each room of the house?

Just do yourself a favor, when the system is started up, ensure that you have them measure your static pressure along with CFM's. You'll find the blower data and the correct parimeters for SP from the manufacturer with the air handler instructions.

Honestly, if they are only running a "open" bottom air return off the air handler that is placed directly over the dehumidifier, I'm kind of scratching my head.

I don't know the answers. I see/saw what I believe are supply and return ducts. I may have some shots of 'in progress'. If not, I'll take some shots specifically of the duct locations. They did the duct work a long time ago.

 

[ultrarunner]

Have not come across multiple ducted returns in residential.

Standard is one or more registers in each room/area with a single return in a common hallway when ducted or below the furnace if not ducted with the furnace location commonly in the hallway.

It may be because still very little central A/C here?

The few that have added Central A/C to Central Heat use the existing floor registers.

 

[WM75Guy]

Have not come across multiple ducted returns in residential.

Standard is one or more registers in each room/area with a single return in a common hallway when ducted or below the furnace if not ducted with the furnace location commonly in the hallway.

It may be because still very little central A/C here?

The few that have added Central A/C to Central Heat use the existing floor registers.

It is not uncommon here in Texas. The air handlers tend to be in the attic, so running duct is easy. Our 2 units in the house have multiple return air ducts. There is one 24"X 24" in the hallway for each unit and then 12" X 12" in the rooms where the doors tend to be closed, like the master bedroom, my office, and the media room.

 

[2manyrocks]

what kind of duct did they run in your new house, Torvy? Water line material? I haven’t looked at new house construction in so long I don’t know what materials they use now.

 

[Sigarms]

Have not come across multiple ducted returns in residential.

If you look at the image the OP gave on his air handler, at this point in time there is no ducted return. I'm assuming the supply duct is coming off the top of the air handler, and it may not be in the picture. That said, that definately looks like a sheet metal filter rack under the air handler (which I originally thought was a drain pan) which tells me they are running the return air directly under the air handler (why they would put the air filter there). If they are going to run any type of return duct to the air handler, it's going to be impossible with the dehumidifier directly under the return air of the air handler.

In NC, it's code for anything over 1,600 sq ft to have two return ducts.

 

[ultrarunner]

It could be here most homes here built long ago prior to newer code.

1993 build of 3200 square feet one return...

It does make sense to keep the air balanced...

My largest commercial package unit with two compressors serving the lobby will overcome door closers and prevent exterior doors on a 32,000 square feet building from fully closing during filter replacement for the brief period of time return air is coming from outside air...

 

[Torvy]

what kind of duct did they run in your new house, Torvy? Water line material? I haven’t looked at new house construction in so long I don’t know what materials they use now.

I don't know the technical terms. Most of it looked like metal ducts. I can take a shot of the attic to get a better idea. The ducts in the attic in the old place look like giant plastic versions of dryer vent ducts.

 

[Sigarms]

I don't know the technical terms. Most of it looked like metal ducts. I can take a shot of the attic to get a better idea. The ducts in the attic in the old place look like giant plastic versions of dryer vent ducts.

Before the house was being built, did you tell them where you wanted your HVAC system?

Assuming all your air registers (for both supply and return) are in the ceiling?

Apologies, I missed it, how many floors? 1 with the attic?

I'm also under the impression that you have no clue who the HVAC contractor is? Assuming he's local and will most likely be handling the service for at least the first year (at least that's required in NC for new installs).

 

[Torvy]

I told them where I wanted all of the utilities. The room was designed specifically for that purpose. Water heater, HVAC and Elec. panel all in there) House is a single sloped roof. One story with a partial attic over the bedrooms. Mechanicals room is in the SE corner of the house. The outdoor unit, is just outside the door there.

The main living area is lofted, so it looks bigger than it is.

This shot is from the kitchen toward the family room. MB is on the other side of fireplace wall (there is another fireplace in there). This is the only shot I have right now where you can see vent/ducts. Front door is to the left, back door to the right. The ducting in the foreground is for the cook top hood.

 

[Sigarms]

I told them where I wanted all of the utilities. The room was designed specifically for that purpose. Water heater, HVAC and Elec. panel all in there) House is a single sloped roof. One story with a partial attic over the bedrooms.

You did your due dilligence IMO building your new home. I won't lie, knowing some homeowners, I could see the HVAC contractor laying out the duct work in the attic with equipment and THEN you change your mind where the equipment should be located after everything is built

IF you were my father, this is the same advice I'd give to him in the same situation as yourself, so I'm being honest with you...

Manual J (load calculation)
Manual D (duct calculation)
Manual S (equipment selection per Manual J)
Manual ZR (zoning calculation)

For new construction, a Manual J and Manual D should be done and followed at a minimum.

In NC, a Manual J must be done by law per new contruction, and the only time it is required to be produced is if there is an issue from the end user.

Per the state you reside in,

Contact Information

www.tdlr.texas.gov

I'm not a big permit kind of guy (another can of worms depending on who you deal with), but as a paying end user, your expectation is you assume the guy doing the work for you knows what he is doing and you won't have any issues.

This is not always the case.

I've seen a newly built 3,200 square foot single level home only need 2 ton of AC in NC (non LEED certified). New construction along with higher insulation values do not go by the old school rule of thumb per square footage anymore for heating and cooling loads.

I'm a dummy. Don't trust anything I say, but talk to people more smarter than myself in your local area per this topic.

That said, when your HVAC system is started up, I'd highly suggest you get a basic start up sheet that the HVAC company should do for their own records which they should supply to you per your request. You should have static pressure given as well as CFM's produced by the air handler (as well as your charge on refrigerant). Honestly, for a new home build, I'd also have the contractor verify how many CFM's are being produced at each and every register when the system is running full tilt.

You're spending good money on this build, and if people are making money on this job, their expectation should be that you are satisfied IMO.

A man much smarter than myself once told me that you can't verify results if you don't record the data at hand at that point in time. Keep a record of those verifications in writing so if you have an issue down the road, you can verifty the results vs a previous "good" test. This will help you narrow down the possible issues if one arises in the future.

You may never have an issue, and open returns may cause no problem (although technically any open return by code in NC needs to be "plenum rated" which raises other concearns if there is a problem), but if your HVAC company is pulling return air for the air handler in a a single room for a 2,000 sqare foot house, I would have concearns about it myself. That said, I'm a dummy and don't know what I'm talking about, but... if they (the installing HVAC company) has a whole house dehumidifer installed with the air handler, for the money being spent, standard good practice is to tie in the dehumidifiers supply and return into the supply and return ductwork for your HVAC system. The way it looks per your pic, there is no return to tie the dehumidifier into and an "open space" return is being used. I could be totally wrong about that because the work isn't finished yet.

That said, if an open return is being used from the room the equipment is in, your basic start up sheet will catch any potiential problems with static pressure and CFM's.

For only one HVAC system for that sized house, I'm surprised no one offered you zoning options if there are only two of you living in the house that size (impression I get from reading this thread is it's you and the misses). Bascially that will only give you the required heating and cooling for say the master bedroom and master bath late at night, when you and your wife generally aren't anywhere else in the house. By heating and cooling only one bedroom and perhaps bath were the owners sleep at night, it reduces the total load for the entire home running off of one system when the load is only required for a bedroom and bathroom 8 hours a day (say 11PM to 6AM). Then, if you don't spend any time in the bedroom during the day, it can help shift the load to the rest of the house (thermostat is used for each "zone" to control the temp).

 

[2manyrocks]

HVAC installers I've dealt with seem to hate doing the calculations. I think they'd rather work in a blazing hot attic than actually run the numbers.

IMO, one the smartest moves for a homeowner these days is to also install a mini split to cool and provide some heating in the large open area (typically the open kitchen/entertaining space). Very efficient, super quiet, and can keep the big area you actually use during the day comfortable. The larger ducted system then can heat and cool the closed off bedrooms and bathrooms as needed maybe at a higher temp during the day when not in use, but at whatever temp needed at night.

Although it's not a true zoned system, the other advantage to me is that if there is any problem with the central ducted system, at least the mini split is there to maintain some comfort while the central is being sorted out and vice versa because they are independent systems.