Propane shortage

[dstig1]

There was a news story here at the start of winter that Propane distribution was changing. The pipeline company that used to supply propane to the area decided to switch off the propane, and reverse the direction of the line to carry something else (maybe crude from ND? I forget...). but in any case the article said the demand for propane has dropped over the years, so it made better business sense to use the pipeline to carry something more profitable. Can't really blame them for that logic... The local suppliers had a year or more notice, and they were adding terminals to stockpile going forward. I think it was going to be mainly train delivery now to the terminals. They also said the price would go up as a result of all this. We have nat gas, and that was one of the big pluses when looking at the property. Not too common to have that outside the city, but we do here in a few spots, until you get too far out.

 

[bucktaker]

where is the best place to purchase a 1000 gal tank? we have a 500 gal rental but I need about 800 gal a yr so we always get a fill in jan at the high price because we cant make it through the winter. my supplier is trying to make us go monthly or charge a low use fee. I am thinkingI will just buy a 1000 gal tank and fill during the summer and tel them to pack sand

 

[kenmac]

I totally agree with you, My problem is that the furnace was, and is in the garage. It was already set up for the chimney vent and I don't have a drain for the water that is produced with the higher efficiency furnace. By the way, thanks for the smart remark about NG and the funny face, I needed a good laugh!

something to consider in the future. I use a condensate pump for the furnace condensate .. Venting should be a snap since, you can vent them with SCH. 40 pvc and terminate the vent just out side a wall, etc,

 

[kenmac]

We kept propane at the cabin... own the tank from 1964.

Thinking we should have switched to natural gas in 1985 when it was brought in and then all of Lake Tahoe lost natural gas for more than a week... the main line blew out in the middle of winter and we were sitting pretty with 85% full tank of propane.

Unfortunately... wood heating is being phased out and not even permitted in new construction.

Yes, with NG, you can have a loss of service. It does happen from time to time. I don't know about your area ,but in my area,it's rare to loose NG service . When there is a loss, it's only for a day or 2 (at most). I've had it at my current location for 27 yrs and have never had a loss

 

[Ken45101]

How old is your NG furnace ? What is the efficiency of your NG furnace? How much house are you heating? House well insulated ? windows,doors,etc, You can get a 95-98% efficient gas furnace which, will pay off

I have heard that efficiencies over 90% do NOT pay out. Much higher initial costs and more frequent maintenance costs for the high efficiency units.

FWIW, my son just paid over $4/gallon for propane. They don't even use their "high efficiency" furnace (it's broke) but rather heat with an unvented gas fireplace. Running the furnace is much more expensive than the fireplace.

 

[tcartwri]

This is during times of normal civility. I'm guessing you could pretty much say bye bye to propane in any dire circumstances or disaster. As such, it is my last choice as a fuel. You can always beg, borrow or steal fuel oil!

Every new house I have seen for a long while is without any wood heating appliance and almost everyone has some LPG or NG fireplace. FOOLS! Exchanging convenience for lack of self sufficiency!

A propane insert or stove does not need hydro to run, so they are actually a very shrewd addition to the home. Saved our butts during the 98 ice storm.

 

[tcartwri]

I have heard that efficiencies over 90% do NOT pay out. Much higher initial costs and more frequent maintenance costs for the high efficiency units.

FWIW, my son just paid over $4/gallon for propane. They don't even use their "high efficiency" furnace (it's broke) but rather heat with an unvented gas fireplace. Running the furnace is much more expensive than the fireplace.

It would actually be difficult to find a 93% or less efficient furnace to install. Plus if you're retrofitting from another heating source, running the venting for a high efficiency unit makes them a no brainer. Maintenance issues are not the same as they were with the high e oil units.

 

[stuckmotor]

Looks like propane supplies are getting short due to the 'polar vortex'. Also interesting was the link to high corn crop yeilds. The more corn the more farmers use propane to dry the crop and the less propane available for heating later in the year.- Yahoo Finance[/url]

I've never understood using fuel to dry corn. Won't it dry on the stalk in Idaho?

 

[lockhaven]

The mills require a certain moisture content for the corn, the price for corn goes down as the loads arrive so he who is first gets the best price. Also this so called shortage is pure BS, thats the way to raise prices pure and simple. Funny how when it is a shortage if the price goes up there is plenty, same as gas and diesel

 

[blueriver]

Although here in SE Oklahoma we don't get as cold we do experience cold ... The house is all wood the only propane is the farrowing house...I wasn't paying attention of pricing have a 250 gallon tank filled it in September at $1.79 a gallon the other day I looked and was just under 30% .. So I called and said top it off ... Geez was I shocked when I found the bill ... $2.75 gallon .. That's farm tax exempt ..

 

[Turbys_1700]

15 years ago or so I put in a set of gas logs to supplement my newly installed heat pump...
I have a 120 gal tank that gets filled once a year...
I typically don't use the logs just in case of emergency...
Great peace of mind when we have power outages to keep part of the house warm...
I feel for folks that use more than I do...
Before the heat pump conversion I was burning 700 gallons of oil per year...

 

[flusher]

My propane guy showed up last week. My 250 gal tank was at 40%. Generally he waits until it drops to 25% to refill. Said his price now is $3/gal and advised that I wait until March to refill. We're in the third year of drought around here and the afternoon high is reaching 75F with overnight low in the mid 30s so the furnace isn't running too much. I thought that the new oil fields in North Dakota were supplying gas as well as crude. He said that they were burning off the gas and that the EPA made them stop. And there is a problem with lack of facilities for transporting gas from that area and separating out the propane.

 

[LD1]

where is the best place to purchase a 1000 gal tank? we have a 500 gal rental but I need about 800 gal a yr so we always get a fill in jan at the high price because we cant make it through the winter. my supplier is trying to make us go monthly or charge a low use fee. I am thinkingI will just buy a 1000 gal tank and fill during the summer and tel them to pack sand

Who is your supplier? An do you have something like a farmers coop in your area. That is who my tank is through. Only filled twice in 7 years, no rentals or minimum usafea charges. And always cheaper than others in the area like wise, Ferrell, Amerigas, etc.

 

[deerseeker001]

they have all the answers don't they.

 

[charlz]

My understanding on propane is that it is mostly produced as a byproduct in oil refining which means there is essentially a limited amount of it produced. Plastic manufactures use it as feedstock in the summer months and when the fall heating season comes around and prices start to rise they switch to other feedstock. Propane prices are lower in the areas around the Mississippi as it is cheaply transported on barges. Out West here it is always more expensive as there are less refiners and it is mostly transported by rail.

After my first winter in this house I put in a pellet stove which I have calculated runs at least 55% cheaper on a per BTU-BTU basis. Avoided propane costs paid for my pellet stove in 4.5 years. Instead of getting 3-4 refills on my 500 gallon tank per year I now get a fill every couple of years. My last one was September of 2011 and I still have 60% in my tank. Only my furnace and kitchen stove are propane. This winter and last winter we had unusual cold spells that last a couple weeks each and required me to run the furnace as the pellet stove could not keep up. Otherwise a 500 gallon tank would run my cookstove for a good long while. The local propane company I use was bought out last year so I am waiting to see if they start stuff like the 'low use fee' someone mentioned earlier in this thread. My tank is a rental so they could I guess. If needed I will buy an underground one and tell them to kiss off and buy my propane from someone else.

 

[charlz]

For you guys on natural gas, what are you paying per Therm?

 

[bucktaker]

Who is your supplier? An do you have something like a farmers coop in your area. That is who my tank is through. Only filled twice in 7 years, no rentals or minimum usafea charges. And always cheaper than others in the area like wise, Ferrell, Amerigas, etc.

Would like to keep my supplier out of the loop on a tank purchase.....really Im fed up with their antics and will at least switch suppliers next summer.

 

[Dutch445]

i just made a payment for a delivery in december. 2.39 per gallon. i wanted to tell them not to
deliver this cycle, because price increases, and the fact that i'm no longer heating with it (put in
a coal stove). if i tell them i'm not using it for heat, then my price changes with lower usage.

 

[LD1]

Would like to keep my supplier out of the loop on a tank purchase.....really Im fed up with their antics and will at least switch suppliers next summer.

I wasnt suggesting you buy a tank from them or even clue them in. Mainly just curious as to who you had a bad experience with.

I know alot of people (that I know personally) have had issues with about every major player in my area.

I have never had issues with farmers coop out of marion county. Like I said, no yearly lease fees, no minimum usage, etc. Aside from this time when they filled me up without my requesting....I have nothing bad to say. (but they quickly fixed that issue).

After reading these numerous threads here on TBN about yearly leases, minimums, etc: had me wondering if I by chance owned the tank??? (came with the house). I called them and asked them. They said no, they own it. I asked about how come I never get a bill for a lease, or never any extra charges for not using much. They said they dont do that. After talking to others here on TBN, people said that they could be making it up by charging more, and that most places charge extra for leased tanks per gallon, and that if you owned the tank, the price would be alot less per gallon.

So that had me curious. Last time I filled two years ago, I called them all. Bennett, ferrell, wise, amerigas, etc. And inquired as to the price for a customer owned tank. They were ALL higher than what I could have my leased tank filled for with the exception of one. Dont remember which it was, but it was a whole whopping penny per gallon less.

So IMO, with the company I have, it aint worth owning a tank. They are always the cheapest, no yearly lease fees, no mark-up per gallon for lease customers, and no worrying about the tank. I have a broken gauge. two years ago it had moisture in it to the point it coundnt be read, the guy filling it broke the glass out so it could be read. Well, now it is rusted and the needle kinda sticks. Well, guess what, their tank, they fixed it and I didnt have to pay a dime.

So leasing does have its advantages if you have a good company. That is why I asked if you had a farmers coop down your way?

 

[charlz]

I was paying an extra 10 cents per gallon for 'insurance' on my leased tank. Anything goes wrong with the equipment and they fix it.... if it leaks all the propane out does it cover that? Nope. Pretty much a scam if you use a lot of propane. Now that they were bought out I have no idea what the prices are or how much they pad it with 'insurance' for leased tanks.