Propane

[schmism]

So in browsing craigslist i ran across an old Minneapolis Moline that was propane and it got me thinking.....

At half the cost per gallon (i just bought propane last week at 2.29, but last fall i paid 1.73...who would like to pay a 1.73 instead of 4.50?), why arnt farmers going back to propane?

Then i remembered diesel guys talking about adding propane to there trucks, and thought could it be added to a smaller CUT to offset fuel costs and or more power?

 

[tinkertoys]

To set up for propane on a gas tractor would cost in excess of 1500.00 then you have to have a way to get propane to the field.. A diesel tractor can have propane added as a power booster. The cost of this is very high. All I can say is it is very costly, and a lot of trouble for what you gain.. These are my thoughts, as a former propane delivery driver. Anyone else want to comment?????????????????

 

[schmism]

A diesel tractor can have propane added as a power booster. The cost of this is very high.

Now i dont clame to know how it works but it was my (basic and oversimplified verson) it was as simple as holding an unlit propane torch next to the air inlet.

a propane addon to the old toyota trucks was about a $500 kit. could pick it up at your local forklift place as 22re was the same in the forklift as the pickup.


Expensive is also relitive when talking about buring $4.50 diesel vs $2 propane.

let see if i can ball park some number correctly.

150hp tractor burns 4gal/hr? call that a savings of $10/hr to keep the math easy. $5000 conversion kit pay back is ... 500 hrs

in the (big) farming world that doesn't sound like an expensive change.

 

[Baby Grand]

I think you'd need to factor this into your power/dollar equation:
Liquid propane: 91,500 Btu's per gallon
No. 2 diesel: 140,000 Btu's per gallon
I'm not a combustion engineer, so I don't know if there are any other considerations to the power/dollar equation, but I suspect that there are.

 

[schmism]

I think you'd need to factor this into your power/dollar equation:
Liquid propane: 91,500 Btu's per gallon
No. 2 diesel: 140,000 Btu's per gallon
I'm not a combustion engineer, so I don't know if there are any other considerations to the power/dollar equation, but I suspect that there are.

This is true, i thought they were closer together in there energy/gallon content.

there is a 34% diffrence in those numbers vs a 100% diffrence in cost.

im curious to hear more. (but for now its lunch time)

 

[Egon]

Arrgh - another power pull tractor!

 

[Wayne County Hose]

I can convert a gasoline engine to propane for under $500. All that's needed is a lockoff valve, a regulator, and a carburetor. I used to repair forklifts for a living so I know where to look and what parts are needed. A gasoline engine converted to propane has roughly 15% less power. I don't know how propane compares to diesel.

That old Minneapolis-Moline on propane may be worth a good buck. A buddy of mine found an old JD propane tractor from the factory. Turns out it's worth almost double it's gasoline cousins.

 

[sandman2234]

Friend of mine does a lot of auctions, and he had a propane tractor and I don't think he ever got any bidders on it. Maybe I need to see if he still has it and get some pictures for you guys.
David from jax

 

[djw250]

We had 2 propane tractors on the farm when I was growing up. One was an Allis Chalmers WC that was converted to propane from "tractor fuel" and the other was a Farmall 560 that as far as I know was propane from the factory. My brother still has the WC and has converted it to gasoline, I think using the same carburetor with some jetting changes, not sure though. Never had any problem with the propane as fuel, but you didn't want to run out.

 

[skipmarcy]

I got my first experience at working on gas to propane converted engines back in 1983 - a local glass co. had 9, 1980 F150's with 300 ci 6 cyl. engines. The only changes were the carburetors - a modified Autolite (Carter). It appeared that the only change in it was the throttle body - the fuel hose attached to it and it obviously had the regulator in it too. One engine had dropped a valve at about 115k miles and we found that the exhaust valve seats had been beaten into the head. That engine was as clean inside as the day it was assembled at Ford - I couldn't believe it. Absolutely no carbon residue at all in the ring lands or anywhere. The crankcase side of everything was just as clean - no sludge, no discoloration of anything. I had the local performance machine shop replace the valve seats with heavy duty stellite seats and put it all back together. The owners of the glass co. had the smarts to have me go ahead and do valve jobs on the other 8 trucks and they carried on until who knows when !!

 

[crabjoe]

I wish Propane was at $2/gallon around here. We're paying around $3/gallon; delivered to heat our homes.

 

[schmism]

That old Minneapolis-Moline on propane may be worth a good buck. A buddy of mine found an old JD propane tractor from the factory. Turns out it's worth almost double it's gasoline cousins.

apparently

Minneapolis-Moline M670 Propane Tractor

 

[mojoinco]

I think most all brands used to offer propane versions of the gas engines.

I know that years ago a forklift mechanic told me that he had customers run the propane engines until propane wouldn't run them anymore, then to be cheap would run them on gas. Propane/natural gas have long been noted for the clean burn and minimal blowby (dirty oil). But you will have to reach out a ways to find something that is convertible (gas) or was originally propane. I have seen the occasional MF around here with it.

I always thought it made good sense for a yard tractor. Just steal the BBQ bottle as needed. The local grocery stores all use propane powered floor polishing equipment (that's when you realize they really should close the $#%&*^ store for a couple of hours per day as the maniac behind the wheel runs around you and blasts you with the exhaust).

 

[Barneyhunts]

Since propane is a petroleum product I don't think the price increases will be far behind. In three years the $/gal of propane to heat my house has more than doubled.

 

[john12]

Will any of the manufacturer's install a propane setup instead of diesel? I am running an old 1956 Case that purrs like a kitten with the propane. I just fill it from our large tank out back. I can run a brush-hog all day long on just one tank of gas. For safety reasons and mechanical reasons I will be getting a new tractor next year and was just wondering if any of the manufactures would still be willing to set me up with a propane driven rig. Any info would be appreciated.

 

[john_bud]

One of the big deals with propane is that it already is a gas. So it is ready to burn from the git go. Diesel needs to volatilize (turn from liquid to vapor) before it can be burned. It doesn't do that 100% and then leaves soot residue. Black stuff in the oil, etc. So, while propane has less BTU it has better more complete combustion and that narrows the gap a bit.

You do need to heat the carburator with propane or it will ice up. The factory models usually have a engine coolant loop around the carb.

I'm not sure how the old guys used to refill the small propane tanks on the farm. Always wondered if there was just a port on the big 500 or 1000 gal house tank?

jb

 

[RalphVa]

We ran propane in our tractors when I lived on the farm in the 1950s. Don't think the conversion was that difficult, and we could switch back and forth by just turning off the propane tank and switching on the gasoline. We could tell when the tractor was about out of propane. It wouldn't just quit. It'd start losing a little bit of power first. Back on gas, it always seemed to have a HUGE amount more power.

Like the other poster pointed out, propane has a lot less energy than diesel or gasoline/gallon. A gallon of propane is only 4.24 # (vs. about 7ish for gas and near 8ish for diesel). I worked with the stuff in refrigeration systems for 31 years. Remember that figure well. Boiling point is -44 F.

Ralph

 

[firedog]

One of the big deals with propane is that it already is a gas. So it is ready to burn from the git go. Diesel needs to volatilize (turn from liquid to vapor) before it can be burned. It doesn't do that 100% and then leaves soot residue. Black stuff in the oil, etc. So, while propane has less BTU it has better more complete combustion and that narrows the gap a bit.

That's my understanding as well. I think the 15% number (gas vs LP) comes from the actual BTU content, but the combustion efficiency brings it closer to 8 - 9% (gas vs LP), or so I'm told.
A year or so ago, I added the LP kit to one of my generators for about $200. It works very well. Check out Generator Conversion Kits to Propane and Natural Gas. Howbeit, they don't have kit for larger engines. (or tractors).