Property Line Hunters

[MikeD74T]

Land ownership is a funny thing in the US. Regardless of which state you're in only by paying taxes on a frequent & continuous basis does the "landowner' retain any say over how the land will be used and by whom. This privelage may be transferred by the exchange of mutually agreeable considerations but if the taxes don't get paid government will take ownership of the land. Government determines "landowner rights" in all cases.

Mike, you and I are on the same wavelength......I totally agree with your view on some hunters "spot"...Do you have any links/sources on the NH &G laws pertaining to F&G CO's authority to enter posted land....

This subject was discussed on another website regarding "Tracking dogs" and there was discussions about tracking dog handlers and their ability to enter posted land......someone there said it was legal and others said it was not...

Maybe you can help me to understand and verify.....Thanx

The officer didn't offer any specific statutes & I generally take that sort of statement with a grain of salt but he was also plain in his discussion that when this situation arises that you'd better be able to provide a blood trail originating from a legal hunting area onto the posted property. There are statutes clearly allowing officers to enter posted land to investigate crime which could result in determining the original shooter in fact shot onto land which he was not authorized to hunt on. In other words, if you call for their help you'd better be legit.
Dog hunting can get tricky, dogs don't recognize property lines but their owners are obliged to. I know a dog hunter that has had to get F&G involved in retrieving a hound impounded by a landowner. Got the impression it was painful & time consuming for all parties before it was resolved. I have no knowledge of anything that would allow a leashed dog to bring a handler onto posted property for hunting. Something like searching for a missing person would, I suspect, be considered a potential crime investigation & considered a public benefit ( which fits nicely with Missouri's motto - "The welfare of the people shall be the supreme law" - for DwightD123's benefit ).

If "the wildlife belongs to the state", then if the deer are eating my fruit trees and my garden, is the state going to compensate me for the damage? Is the state paying me for maintaining a suitable habitat for deer, rather than developing the land into town houses or a shopping mall? .....quote]

Actually there are significant tax incentives for allowing hunting & some other forms of recreation, as well as permission to take out of season animals for legitimate crop damage if reasonable effort has been made to prevent that damage. There are also incentives by private groups to purchase anti-developement rights to one's property. A neighboring farm just got over $1 million for an agreement not to develop their property, which is not even especially suitable for development and they couldn't have sold lots for that much. They retain all other rights to continue farming or not, it just can't be sold as housing lots.

If "the wildlife belongs to the state", then if the deer are eating my fruit trees and my garden, is the state going to compensate me for the damage?QUOTE]

Ha ha ha...well put. I would hate to live in a state that took the view that they could supersede landownders rights to that degree. I mean I know wardens can come on the property but to come in to track a deer even if the landowner says no? That's a whole new level of wrong. Next thing the guy tracking gets hurt and sues you....smells like a turd in turpentine to me. quote]

I don't know anything about MO but NH is quite specific about landowner rights. A public radio show this week told of rain barrels being illegal in CO because rain is public property and must be allowed to run unencumbered wherever it will run to. Now I find that a bit much!! NH has laws to protect landowners from liability unless the landowner profits from the access, i.e. lease hunters & as the F&G officer said, they would work with the landowners within the laws both ways, the intend being to obtain landowner cooperation. MikeD74T

 

[Missouri Pioneer]

Deer Season - This year a guy came in and cut about a acre of softwood regen so he could see into a hemlock swamp.
So for the most part I ignor it or just let them know gently that I am upset by what they did.

Gordon, you're a lot more easy going than I am. If somebody cut an acre of mine without permission, I would be absolutely furious and would seek both criminal and civil redress.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

2x I have come home to find hunters in my place, the first time they had flipped a skiff, walked a couple miles to my place and I came home to 3 naked guys wrapped in blankets huddled around my stove:laughing: They were appologetic and appreciative and near death. They ended up staying a few days til the weather broke and they could fly out. 2 are good friends now. The other time,I came home to a strange boat in the cove and a skiff on the beach and 2 drunks in my cabin drinking my beer! Because of their attitude after I walked in, I put them both back in their skiff minus their boots, coats, an rifles and told them they could come back in the am when they were sober to get their stuff. They sent another who had stayed on the boat back to get their stuff in the am, with their appologies and even sent a jug in with him.

I guess hunters are like everyone else, there are some who will try to take advantage of every situation but most of those will do the right thing if given a chance.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Gordon, you're a lot more easy going than I am. If somebody cut an acre of mine without permission, I would be absolutely furious and would seek both criminal and civil redress.

Maybe I made it sound worse than it was. There was an area of large tress that had been thinned to promote some regen. There was a sparse regen component started of christmas tree size softwood. He cut about an acre of these out. It was a lot of trees but the acre still had the big trees on it.

My understanding is that in VT it would not be considered a criminal act. And VT civil law says if you cut someone elses trees you pay the owner thee times thier value. Being small trees they have very little or no market value. I would go to court and get nothing. Sad but true.

 

[Tollster]

I really rather try to get along with the neighbors, if people ask, I also let them hunt. If I see a stranger, I approach them and ask their names, and where they are from, then suggest stopping by the house when they are done. I then tell them i would perfer if they asked ahead of time. Sometimes deer reduction is the best deterent of all. I do not permit drives on my property either
Anyone who hunts leased areas nearby are not welcome on my property, ask I want to know who is on it, and there are quite a few who really should not own a rifle.
I don't know how long ya been there, but if it hasn't been long, try to work something out with everyone involved.

 

[strum456]

I really rather try to get along with the neighbors, if people ask, I also let them hunt. If I see a stranger, I approach them and ask their names, and where they are from, then suggest stopping by the house when they are done. I then tell them i would perfer if they asked ahead of time. Sometimes deer reduction is the best deterent of all. I do not permit drives on my property either
Anyone who hunts leased areas nearby are not welcome on my property, ask I want to know who is on it, and there are quite a few who really should not own a rifle.
I don't know how long ya been there, but if it hasn't been long, try to work something out with everyone involved.

Right there is the most senseable post on this thread.

 

[GPintheMitten]

If they are on your property, you have a point. If they are on their own property but close to the line, leave them alone. You have no right to a buffer zone around your property, other than a safety zone around your residence and out bldgs. In Michigan, its 450' from the bldg, not property lines.

 

[Western]

Been there, thought about it.
But when I pass on I don't want to spend eternity with the devil or any of his associates. :laughing:
Boone

Boone, you got that right, we don't want to be part of a family reunion in ****, that's for sure, no cold drinks would suck:laughing:

Gordon, you're a lot more easy going than I am. If somebody cut an acre of mine without permission, I would be absolutely furious and would seek both criminal and civil redress.

You got that right!

I came home to 3 naked guys wrapped in blankets huddled around my stove:laughing:

Yes sir, I would have a problem finding naked guy's on/in my place:laughing: I guess under the circumstances maybe a bit more acceptable in that situation, maybe.

 

[EHR]

Land ownership is a funny thing in the US. Regardless of which state you're in only by paying taxes on a frequent & continuous basis does the "landowner' retain any say over how the land will be used and by whom. This privelage may be transferred by the exchange of mutually agreeable considerations but if the taxes don't get paid government will take ownership of the land. Government determines "landowner rights" in all cases.



The officer didn't offer any specific statutes & I generally take that sort of statement with a grain of salt but he was also plain in his discussion that when this situation arises that you'd better be able to provide a blood trail originating from a legal hunting area onto the posted property. There are statutes clearly allowing officers to enter posted land to investigate crime which could result in determining the original shooter in fact shot onto land which he was not authorized to hunt on. In other words, if you call for their help you'd better be legit.
Dog hunting can get tricky, dogs don't recognize property lines but their owners are obliged to. I know a dog hunter that has had to get F&G involved in retrieving a hound impounded by a landowner. Got the impression it was painful & time consuming for all parties before it was resolved. I have no knowledge of anything that would allow a leashed dog to bring a handler onto posted property for hunting. Something like searching for a missing person would, I suspect, be considered a potential crime investigation & considered a public benefit ( which fits nicely with Missouri's motto - "The welfare of the people shall be the supreme law" - for DwightD123's benefit ).

If "the wildlife belongs to the state", then if the deer are eating my fruit trees and my garden, is the state going to compensate me for the damage? Is the state paying me for maintaining a suitable habitat for deer, rather than developing the land into town houses or a shopping mall? .....quote]

Actually there are significant tax incentives for allowing hunting & some other forms of recreation, as well as permission to take out of season animals for legitimate crop damage if reasonable effort has been made to prevent that damage. There are also incentives by private groups to purchase anti-developement rights to one's property. A neighboring farm just got over $1 million for an agreement not to develop their property, which is not even especially suitable for development and they couldn't have sold lots for that much. They retain all other rights to continue farming or not, it just can't be sold as housing lots.

If "the wildlife belongs to the state", then if the deer are eating my fruit trees and my garden, is the state going to compensate me for the damage?QUOTE]

Ha ha ha...well put. I would hate to live in a state that took the view that they could supersede landownders rights to that degree. I mean I know wardens can come on the property but to come in to track a deer even if the landowner says no? That's a whole new level of wrong. Next thing the guy tracking gets hurt and sues you....smells like a turd in turpentine to me. quote]

I don't know anything about MO but NH is quite specific about landowner rights. A public radio show this week told of rain barrels being illegal in CO because rain is public property and must be allowed to run unencumbered wherever it will run to. Now I find that a bit much!! NH has laws to protect landowners from liability unless the landowner profits from the access, i.e. lease hunters & as the F&G officer said, they would work with the landowners within the laws both ways, the intend being to obtain landowner cooperation. MikeD74T

The tax levels are minor in NH. Both fall under current use. On a hundred acres it amounts to about 50 bucks to go to the higher level in which it is not considered recreation land that is open to the public. I have mine in that, it somewhat isolate me incase someone hurts themselves while trsspassing themselves on it. It is like snowmobiling in NH. The law states that you need the landowners written permission to snowmobile on it.

I wish it didn't come to this but having hunters walk within 30 feet of my house when I am in the yard and is stupid. The stupid ones ruin it for the majority who appreciate the access. Maybe hunters and others should police themselves as a group better and then more of the remaining land would be available.

 

[DwightD123]

If they are on your property, you have a point. If they are on their own property but close to the line, leave them alone. You have no right to a buffer zone around your property, other than a safety zone around your residence and out bldgs. In Michigan, its 450' from the bldg, not property lines.

I know I don't have a right to a buffer zone just like I don't have a right to not get stung by a wasp on my bright white ***, but I do want to avoid it if there is a decent way of doing so. If I can ease the other hunters back my Dad will be safer and the hunt will be less likely to be interrupted by them wanting to track a deer or driving their 4 wheeler down the property line. I am a pretty easy going guy and will do everything I can to handle it in a way that would not be rude or ignorant. I will keep in perspective it is not my right to have them move back just try and see if I can get them to understand.

 

[Tomtint]

As far as I'm concerned, hunters are just a total PITA. We have had them walk around our property like they own it, from now on if I see a tree stand, the tree comes down and the stand goes on Craigs List. 2 years ago we had a buyer for a parcel of land, they were walking the property when 4 hunters stomped out of the woods, that blew the sale. If you are a hunter and want to hunt somewhere, buy your own land and stay off everyone elses.

 

[johnrex62]

There aren't to many hunters that will pass on a good deer just cause he's standing on the wrong side of the fence. They will tell you "the deer jumped the fence after I shot it", unless the deer is head shot or you saw it get shot, you can't really dispute the claim.

40 acres isn't much room, it's enough for 1 or 2 hunters. You must have some decent deer crossing it or they wouldn't want to be on or close to it. If that's the case, the only way to protect your hunting interest is to be there and stand your ground. I doubt that these people are going to give up on it especially if they are not breaking any laws. You may be better off leasing it to them and hunting somewhere else.
Moth balls, coyote urine, your own urine, will deter deer. I would not broadcast this over a large area, just piss on the tree stand or tree he's hunting in every chance you get. This will keep the deer away from his stand but he's still going to shoot deer on your property if your not there.

I guess that all depends on the terrain. For several years my Dad and I hunted a 25 acre lease in central Texas. It was setup with 6 blinds and a couple areas with no blinds that could sustain a walking hunt. We never had more than 3 people on the lease at a time, but it would safely permit several more with no danger of shooting lines crossing any other hunting areas.

One of my Dad's favorite blinds was along a fenceline. It faced the road that bordered the fence and did not even have windows on the fenceline side. I can assure you that over the years there were several times he went home without a deer simply because it did not cross onto our lease. I was brought up with enough of a sense of propriety that I would not consider it either.

The first year on the lease I was surprised by an Elk that had wandered off a game preserve nearby and walked in front of my blind. He casually grazed in front of me for nearly five minutes before I remembered I had a gun in my hands. When I had come back to my senses and raised the rifle into firing position, that Elk turned it's back on me and walked calmly into the trees. I debated in those few seconds and decided that if I did not have a clean head or heart shot I was going to let him go and did. At that time, I knew nothing of Elk and just thought he was the biggest **** deer I had ever seen. I had counted 22 points when I was too stunned to continue counting. He was too beautiful to maim with a less than perfect kill shot.

I was in that blind every day I could hunt for the next three years, but he never returned. My memory of watching him more than makes up for that when I consider how I would have felt if I missed his spine on a neck shot and he ran off to bleed out.

Perhaps you are right and most hunters would not have the moral and ethical perspective I was brought up to respect the land and game, but I think there are more than you think that do.

 

[GPintheMitten]

I know I don't have a right to a buffer zone just like I don't have a right to not get stung by a wasp on my bright white ***, but I do want to avoid it if there is a decent way of doing so. If I can ease the other hunters back my Dad will be safer and the hunt will be less likely to be interrupted by them wanting to track a deer or driving their 4 wheeler down the property line. I am a pretty easy going guy and will do everything I can to handle it in a way that would not be rude or ignorant. I will keep in perspective it is not my right to have them move back just try and see if I can get them to understand.

Fair enough. :thumbsup:

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Is your dads stand right on the property line? Is your stand on the property line as well?

 

[Rocksprings]

Johnrex62, Six blinds on 25 acres ??? and you think you can safely put several more hunters on it without shooting across other hunting areas, and you think you can do walking hunts also??? Don't mean to criticize you guy but what have you been smoking ??? There would be real big problems if you bordered my ranch.

 

[Cpjlube]

I hunt on about 100 acres in Ohio. I'm guilty of having a stand right on the property line, and because of the tendency of howling west winds my stand looks right down the line. Several hunters on the adjoining property are also on the line.
I made a point to talk with anyone I saw, to make sure we all knew where the stands and blinds were located. In one instance I marked one of their stands with orange safety tape. Because they were on the line I just tied it to a tree on my side.
When spoke with them I told them why I did so. That I wanted to make sure all hunters on my side would know where other hunters were and not to aim or shoot toward the area I also told them where my stand was. I think that a conversation with most hunters where you emphasize safety and awareness will make it better. But as long as they are on their side there isnt much you can do to stop them. I've tried to work with the hunters nearby to keep safety in mind. It's actually made them very helpful, they bowhunt alot more than I do and keep a watch for trouble ( poaching) on my side.

 

[foreman Etexas]

Johnrex62, Six blinds on 25 acres ??? and you think you can safely put several more hunters on it without shooting across other hunting areas, and you think you can do walking hunts also??? Don't mean to criticize you guy but what have you been smoking ??? There would be real big problems if you bordered my ranch.

Bow hunting I can see it but not rifles!!

 

[johnrex62]

Johnrex62, Six blinds on 25 acres ??? and you think you can safely put several more hunters on it without shooting across other hunting areas, and you think you can do walking hunts also??? Don't mean to criticize you guy but what have you been smoking ??? There would be real big problems if you bordered my ranch.

Hill country makes a big difference over flat land leases.

 

[johnrex62]

Is your dads stand right on the property line? Is your stand on the property line as well?

We gave up the lease a number of years ago when my dad wasn't able to hunt anymore and I didn't have enough time off work to afford it. My Dad's blind was a permanent ground blind about 3 feet off the property line facing down the road going up the hillside. It had been there for many years before we got the lease and as far as I know it is there still.

My stand was also permanent, but was built up in a tree about 30 feet off the ground. It was about 300 yards from my dad's blind toward the interior.

 

[MikeD74T]

Not sure where you are or how long you've been in NH but all categories of current use land are open to the public (limited to specific uses) unless posted. There is a further 10% break (on that already low assessment current use assessment) if you agree not to post to prohibit any entry.

Hunters have no business being within 300' of your house without your permission, you can fix stupid but it takes some effort.

When I referred to tax encentives I wasn't thinking about the 10% reduction but rather "current use" its self. My 2 acre house lot on the seacoast is assessed at $200K while adjacent land, wet forest, is assessed at $15 per acre. Assessments for better woods could go as high as about $200 per acre, farmland as much as $1000 per acre. At $18/mil tax rate I'd rather my land was assessed at $15 per acre than $100K/acre. Like it or not, it's the people that are allowed to use the land that pay the difference in taxes. Close all private land to the public & they'll vote that reduction out of existance. MikeD74t