pto driven vacum kit?

[boggen]

thread got me to thinking.
Implement/Attachment Wish list... - Page 4 - TractorByNet.com

cleaning out a grain bin to turn it into a shed, and came across some old blowers that you might find in your central heating or central A/C. no motors but they have a shaft that a pulley or something could be attached to.

also found another blower that looks like it might have more suction power at moment has a 230volt motor on it.

i have some 30 gallon and 55 gallon drums.

some misc scrap plywood, silicon and spray foam and some screws. i think i have some 4" or 3" flex pipe you might use for end of gutters to get water away form the house some.

i really don't like idea of debris going through the fans, the 230volt blower might be able to handle debris without clogging but rather not do that.

so some sort of box would need to be placed around the blowers. and allow for a shaft to come out the side to connect PTO somehow.

errr perhaps getting a standard box cheap fan that you might have in your hose or prop up front of a window. and remove the motor, and hook it up to the pto shaft with some pulleys. to increase speed of the fan speed. and have it suck the air out of 55 gallon drum or some sort of plywood box. that had a 3" or 4" hose on it, to use as a vacuum.

something strong enough to allow small size crusher rock to be picked up. yet also able to say pick up grass 3 to 5 feet wide. no need for hydrualics or tilt bed dumper, or like a regular house carpet vacuum with the roller under neath it. just a straight shop vac like vacuum but ran off back of tractor PTO. with ability to make your own catcher, either garbage cans, 30 or 55 gallon drums. or building a plywood box on top of a small trailer or toe able lawn cart.

maybe a carry-all. to hold the vacuum fan that connects to PTO shaft and 3pt hitch on tractor. then a ball / hitch with a hose added to carry-all. to make your own size toe able catcher box.

 

[ZLineFabrication]

Boggen, this is another idea i am putting some thought into. we need to see who the market would be? and how big? there are existing designs in different types of equipment that could work in this type of system. so we dont need to reinvent the wheel. i had mentioned a straw blower, this type of equipment uses an enclosed fan to suck in shreaded straw and blow it out over 50'. you need to move a huge volume of air to make this work. the rpm's needed warrant a Strong impeller so that it doesnt shatter when you pickup a rock. you dont actual need the beater, as long as you drag tines of some sort to lift matted debri.

just some thoughts...

 

[boggen]

more of lines of thinking of, a simple metal grate. or even plywood with a bunch of holes in it. with perhaps some sort of fabric or smaller size grill or another piece of plywood with even small holes. to protect the fan.

looking for cheap = better. and general materials that might be around and easily obtained for a few bucks.

 

[cmhyland]

Take a look at this, it might give you some ideas.

Trac Vac Model 858 Lawn Vac

 

[boggen]

Take a look at this, it might give you some ideas.

Trac Vac Model 858 Lawn Vac

getting closer but looks like 5" or 6" pipe between MMM (mid mount mower) and the fan.

also debris is going through fan it would seem. was hoping to avoid that. to cut costs on more expensive heavy duty fan blade.

love the 3pt hitch to tow able trailer though.

though it doesn't have to be tow able trailer. perhaps a piece of plywood over the FEL (front end loader) bucket to make a container.

 

[SPYDERLK]

more of lines of thinking of, a simple metal grate. or even plywood with a bunch of holes in it. with perhaps some sort of fabric or smaller size grill or another piece of plywood with even small holes. to protect the fan.

looking for cheap = better. and general materials that might be around and easily obtained for a few bucks.

Looking all thru your posts here I think you are underestimating the needs for what you seem to want to do. As mentioned by ZLineFabrication you will need a lot of air moving and even with that will have to disturb the debris to get good pickup. Small hoses wont flow much air and even then would clog easily. Unless you plan to feed it manually, and with fine debris, you will need HORSEPOWER. My TrackVac does fairly well on a 54" swath. Its using 8 suction HP and 5 or more HP on the MMM to disturb and blow debris into the 8" pickup tube. Still it clogs some -- esp if mower is not run at full rpm[using up to 10HP]. To pick up even a 3 foot swath without disturbing, chopping, and consolidating debris in this manner is going to take a big tube, a well designed suction pickup throat, and tens of HP.
larry

 

[ZLineFabrication]

more of lines of thinking of, a simple metal grate. or even plywood with a bunch of holes in it. with perhaps some sort of fabric or smaller size grill or another piece of plywood with even small holes. to protect the fan.

looking for cheap = better. and general materials that might be around and easily obtained for a few bucks.

two observations:

1. the containment "box" would have to be air tight in order to acheive a vacuum.

2. the main vacuum tube (filters) would be prone to clogging which will result in loss of vacuum.

i would allow the material to "pass through" the fan. not only will it be more effiacient, it will shread debri allowing you to fit more in the containment vessel.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

...looking for cheap = better. and general materials that might be around and easily obtained for a few bucks.

I think a trampoline canvas would be a good "filter" for this application. You can find them for very cheap if not free.

two observations:

1. the containment "box" would have to be air tight in order to acheive a vacuum.

2. the main vacuum tube (filters) would be prone to clogging which will result in loss of vacuum.

i would allow the material to "pass through" the fan. not only will it be more effiacient, it will shread debri allowing you to fit more in the containment vessel.

I agree that the containment box would have to be tight, but considering the amount of air flow required for this project, a few leaks will not make much of a difference.

I see a system more like a big shopvac. Mount the blower on a big box with a filter cavity built into the box. line the filter cavity with old trampoline canvas or screen door material.

Hopefully your project really sucks

 

[boggen]

ya a big over sized shop vac.:thumbsup:

for FEL (front end loader) general bucket. i think i might take some regular cheap pipe insulation you can get at all the large hardware stores. and just place it around the 2 sides top and bottom. then take a piece of plywood. and some ratchet straps and fasten to plywood right over the front of the bucket. to create kinda of air tight collection chamber.

most likely will cut 2 holes in the plywood. one near each side of the bucket. and kinda high towards the top.

after doing a little grading on the gravel drive with the FEL. i tore up some yard scraping the rock back in. but o'well. not breaking my back to hand rake it back into the drive way.

so i think for mean time. will just hook the suction side of a shop vac i have to one hole in the plywood. then hook up a flex hose to other hole via 2" bulkhead or shower drain (being used as a bulkhead) through the plywood. and just hope i have enough extension cords.

it would be nice to have something ran off the PTO, or hydraulic pump to run a blower / vacuum fan. vs needing the electrical motor shop vac. but will do what i gotta do. to avoid the metal hand rake.

there just be times it would be nice to suck up some mulch and cleaning up a project work site that a over sized "shop vac" that mounted to tractor would be nice. were customer decided how big the catcher for stuff needed to be.

 

[boggen]

two observations:

1. the containment "box" would have to be air tight in order to acheive a vacuum.

2. the main vacuum tube (filters) would be prone to clogging which will result in loss of vacuum.

i would allow the material to "pass through" the fan. not only will it be more effiacient, it will shread debri allowing you to fit more in the containment vessel.

*shakes head NO* i do not want rocks and mulch, weeds, and everything else to pass through fan. i said cheap.

as iplayfarmer noted. containment vessel doesn't have to be super air tight. a little leak here or there. and if anything some good old fashion (duct tape) will plug the leak up.

filters clogging yes and no. it depends on what is being vacuumed up. if it means i gotta pull a window screen from old window that is being used as a filter and nock it against some metal to clean it some. then so be it. that is what the filter is there for.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I just thought of this too... You could build your suction unit to take a standard furnace filter. The low efficiency filters would be plenty adequate for your needs, and they are cheap.

 

[wdchyd]

I also thought of building something like this.......a company I know just scrapped out big industrial fan/blowers (kinda like a hampster wheel).....

IIRC they were driven by 20 to 50 hp elec motors.....

would have required some kind of vbelt or serpentine belt pullet setup to up the rpms if driven off the PTO......these were around 1700 rpm.....

They were offered to me but hated to see them go to the scrap man.....

 

[J_J]

I don't believe you are going to get the kind of suction you need from those squirrel cage blowers. Put your hand in front of your air condition intake duct and feel the suction. Not much there.

Those large blowers/vacuum on the back of tractors or those that have their own engines, either have large blades, or the smaller blades turn at a higher rpm. The impeller on the Trac-Vac, are about 4 in wide, and the diameter is about 18 to 20 in, and they turn at around 3600 rpm. The blades also have to be thick, like 1/4 in, and even then, the tips of the impeller have been bent.

I wish you luck on those fan assembly's, but don't expect much.

 

[Trafficman]

BBogen,
Have you ever seen a cyclone dust collector? Oneida Air Systems - Dust Deputy or 2HP TEMPEST Cyclone Dust Collector: 12" Steel Impeller and Filter Filter Bag at Penn State Industries Same principle here, you get the debris into smallish pieces with the MMM, suck them into a cyclone separator & they slow down to drop into your box. The biggest trick is getting enough air moving to make it work. Most homebuilt cyclones use squirrel cages from furnaces. Theyæ±*e cheap, effective and reasonably easy to get a hold of. I知 thinking of something similar for my BX22, using a pull behind lawn cart, (Agrifab from the Borg), with a box built to fit inside the bed, with the PTO attached to a pulley to spin the Squirrel cage with a belt. Take a hose from the MMM to the Cyclone & another hose from the cyclone to the Squirrel cage. Possibly vent the Squirrel cage back to the MMM on the closed side with a hole/slot cut opposite the discharge side. I think some 6-8 black corrugated pipe would work. There isn稚 a lot of 天acuum there is a lot of moving air 650cuftmin as a minimum. Different kind of suction. HTH

T-Man.

 

[boggen]

I don't believe you are going to get the kind of suction you need from those squirrel cage blowers. Put your hand in front of your air condition intake duct and feel the suction. Not much there.

air from a single intake duct is being divided from multi intake ducts.

if / when i take off the door to squirrel cage blower for this house or another. and the fan is on. i best watch out for any loose clothing or making sure i have good grasp on the door. due to door wanting to pull out of my hands. motors being any were from 1/2 hp to 1.5hp. that are running the blowers you might find in a furnace or central A/C unit.

what blows out of them. has to come from some were at the same speed and amount. when counting up everything that the air gets divided into, to blow and suck air throughout the house.

Those large blowers/vacuum on the back of tractors or those that have their own engines, either have large blades, or the smaller blades turn at a higher rpm. The impeller on the Trac-Vac, are about 4 in wide, and the diameter is about 18 to 20 in, and they turn at around 3600 rpm. The blades also have to be thick, like 1/4 in, and even then, the tips of the impeller have been bent.

I wish you luck on those fan assembly's, but don't expect much.

i believe ya, about fan blades getting bent up. at the speeds they rotate, just the right size bang from a stick, rock, or other. and something has to give. and most likely be torn up.

 

[boggen]

BBogen,
Have you ever seen a cyclone dust collector? Oneida Air Systems - Dust Deputy or 2HP TEMPEST Cyclone Dust Collector: 12" Steel Impeller and Filter Filter Bag at Penn State Industries Same principle here, you get the debris into smallish pieces with the MMM, suck them into a cyclone separator & they slow down to drop into your box. The biggest trick is getting enough air moving to make it work. Most homebuilt cyclones use squirrel cages from furnaces. They豎*e cheap, effective and reasonably easy to get a hold of. I�･ thinking of something similar for my BX22, using a pull behind lawn cart, (Agrifab from the Borg), with a box built to fit inside the bed, with the PTO attached to a pulley to spin the Squirrel cage with a belt. Take a hose from the MMM to the Cyclone & another hose from the cyclone to the Squirrel cage. Possibly vent the Squirrel cage back to the MMM on the closed side with a hole/slot cut opposite the discharge side. I think some 6-8 black corrugated pipe would work. There isn� a lot of 螟ｩacuum there is a lot of moving air 650cuftmin as a minimum. Different kind of suction. HTH

T-Man.

i am trying to avoid any type of mower, rear end, mid mount, or front. granted it would be nice to add some sort of end to end of hose and go back across lawn and get the old cut grass off. i just don't like idea of the vaccum fan and stuff going through the fan blades.

as far as cyclone separator. in ponding and dealing with fish waste water it would be known as a settling chamber. same basic principles apply. if folks used a 55 gallon drum or garbage can. the inlet/outlet on them would most likely be a good thing to copy.

but for the FEL or a plywood box container. its more of relying on speed of material slowing far enough down to fall down. when it hits the container were air movement through it becomes slower. i am going to assume. a baffle might be needed to cause things to slow down quicker and cause abrupt change in direction of air flow. so more grass and lighter stuff falls out of the air current in side box shape containers.

 

[boggen]

I just thought of this too... You could build your suction unit to take a standard furnace filter. The low efficiency filters would be plenty adequate for your needs, and they are cheap.

hhmmsss i don't see why not. though i might encourage some chicken wire between the furnace filter and fan. so if something happens, (bumps, clogging) the filter doesn't end up lodged and stuck pretty good in the fan.

i haven't figured anything out yet, of what i have on hand already. to connect pto shaft to one or both furnace blowers. i am hoping i might find something once i get the grain bin turned into a shed. and start sorting through things.

 

[SPYDERLK]

air from a single intake duct is being divided from multi intake ducts.

if / when i take off the door to squirrel cage blower for this house or another. and the fan is on. i best watch out for any loose clothing or making sure i have good grasp on the door. due to door wanting to pull out of my hands. motors being any were from 1/2 hp to 1.5hp. that are running the blowers you might find in a furnace or central A/C unit.

what blows out of them. has to come from some were at the same speed and amount. when counting up everything that the air gets divided into, to blow and suck air throughout the house.



i believe ya, about fan blades getting bent up. at the speeds they rotate, just the right size bang from a stick, rock, or other. and something has to give. and most likely be torn up.

Furnace blowers wont work. They move a lot of air, but to do so must have very large pipes because they can only develop an extremely small pressure differential. -- Therefore low velocity flow. It wont move solids thru a pipe.
larry

 

[nwltruck]

An old grain blower would be a better choice. They move air at a higher velocity and are very strong. Have found them for very little money in scrap yards and all you would have to do is some work on to get them up and running and attach your hose and some sort of container. Have seen some that the blades are only made of thick rubber spinning in a 4' drum maybe 6" to 8" wide. If you can't find one cheap.... you could always bild your own out of an old fuel barel.... These things blow grain 30' to 40' into the top of bins this should be enough air moving to be a good vac.
Good idea!!!! got ME thinking now.
:thumbsup:

 

[GE222]

Don't bother with a furnace fan. They are rated for less than 1" of static pressure. What you need is a high pressure blower capable of 8-10" of static pressure. Also, high pressure blowers such as in a dust collector keep the air velocity very high as well to transfer the material. Keeping rocks and other debris out of the fan is very simple with out using a filter. A relatively large settling box or tank will need to be installed before the fan. As dense material goes into the tank, the velocity slows to a point at which gravity has a chance to take over. This way only very light materials actually go through the fan.

Pull behind tractor vacuums work great with one minor issue, and that is with sticks getting stuck in the hose.