Generator PTO generator attachment to the Home.

[JackMentink]

I was wondering abouyt the attatchment of a 15 KW PTO generator set to my home. The question I have is that most I have seen have a 30 amp and 50 amp 230 Volt plugs and several 110 Volt. If I want to hook the generator up to power my whole home, I figure it would a take a 80 Amp breaker as 80 Amps X 230 Volts X 80 Percent trip on the breaker equals 14720 Watts.

None of the generator units have that large of a recepticle ? Do these things have a way you can by pass the arrangement of plugs and breakers and direct all the wattage to one output that could be connected to a manual transfer switch that would have a breaker ?


Can some of you folks that have hooked these up to your home can you let me Know?

 

[hr3]

The easyest way I think is to install a 100Amp. manual transfer switch in front of you house panel and hard wire in the genny..a 100 plug would cost an arm and a leg,..you might even check on E bay for a Generac auto transfer switch..My boss sells the ones we don't use there,,good price i think..This would make it much easyer also if you didn't have a disconect before your main panel..They wire into the panel and have breakers in them to take care of several loads..

 

[RonMar]

230VAC? Should be 240 VAC. 15,000W divided by 240VAC = a max current draw of 62.5A
You have also hit on the reason why most gensets this large are usually hard wired into the panel.

That 50A plug is usually used in RV service installations where regular hook/unhook are required. Common use, commonly available at a reasonable price. There are larger ones out there, but I sure wouldn't want to try and carry a wallet with enough cash to pay for one Look to the marine/shore tie suppliers. Over 50A is not so common use I think, so not so avaialble, and not at a very reasonable price...

Another good reason to ask "Do you really need 15KW?"

Options:
1. Hardwire the generator.
2. Drop the coin for a 75-100A shore-tie plug and receptical.
3. Evaluate your EXACT maximum power needs and see if you can get by with less. If you can get your needs under that 50A plug limit, use it with a 50A circuit breaker on the generator output and limit yor capacity to that.

There are a couple of ways to calculate your eact needs:
1. Get a Kill-A-Watt, you should have it anyway if you are making your own power. It will tell you peak and overall average over time power use of individual appliances, as well as if their start and run capacitors are maintaining a proper power factor.
2. Do you have a mechanical power meter on your comercial power service? If so, you can see the watt/hour load of your home at any given time using a stopwatch. Here is how, courtesy of Wikipedia:

The amount of energy represented by one revolution of the disc is denoted by the symbol Kh which is given in units of watt-hours per revolution. The value for Kh should be printed on the face of the meter. The value 7.2 is commonly seen. Using the value of Kh, one can determine the power consumption at any given time by timing the disc with a stopwatch. If the time in seconds taken by the disc to complete one revolution is "t", then the power in watts(P)= 3600 X KH Divided by "t".

For example, if Kh = 7.2, and one revolution took place in 14.4 seconds, the power is 1800 watts. This method can be used to determine the power consumption of household devices by switching them on one by one.

I tried this and it seems to work pretty well. 3600 represents the number of seconds in an hour. This is similar to the formula I use for checking a speedometer. 3600 divided by the number of seconds required to cover a measured mile = speed in MPH. The value for Kh should be on the face of The meter somewhere. Mine was 7.2. Just time the wheel thru one complete revolution. and use this number to divide 3600 X Kh...

 

[JackMentink]

You guys missed the question that I asked. I know my loads. I have a continuous watt meter that measures my loads at all times on both of my 200 amp panels. I need 15 KW to get everything started and run the basics. (I have a large Home with ground source heat pump and well).

I can run conduit or what and what ever size conductors I need to install the gen set. I will get a manual transfer switch as I will need to shut off a bunch of non critical loads prior to actual switching the power over. My intention is to kill utility power and switch to gen power.

The question I had was on the PTO Gen sets. Do they have outputs that by pass all the breakers where you can get the full 15 kw through a single set of conductors, so I can get a full 63 amps through to my panels without being tripped out by a too small breaker (50 Amp)?

 

[LBrown59]

I was wondering abouyt the attatchment of a 15 KW PTO generator set to my home.

Congrats on the Gen Set.
May I ask how you intend to keep enough fuel on hand to last through an extended power outage?

Lot of Gen talk on the board but i never see this matter discussed.

 

[JackMentink]

I really don't plan on keepping that much on hand. Usually the powere is only out in a small area and I could run into town and get fuel if needed. That was my thought. Maybe a little short sighted. Its a whole other item to start getting large fuel tanks. That wold be the alternative for the fuel.

 

[MT. Sparky]

Generators that are designed to power houses usually have main breakers to connect the loads to Then you just run wire from there to gen panel with critical loads in.

 

[LBrown59]

1*I really don't plan on keepping that much on hand. Usually the powere is only out in a small area and
2*I could run into town and get fuel if needed. That was my thought.
3*Maybe a little short sighted.
4*Its a whole other item to start getting large fuel tanks. That wold be the alternative for the fuel.

1*What if it turns out to be a bigger area than usual?
2*Unless the roads are impassible for some reason!
Or the town's with out power too.
3*Wouldn't it be the pits to have a Gen ya could not use cause of a lack of enough fuel?

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/118658-todays-seat-time.html
4*I think I'm all set with this.Now if I just had a Gen

 

[RickB]

You guys missed the question that I asked. I know my loads. I have a continuous watt meter that measures my loads at all times on both of my 200 amp panels. I need 15 KW to get everything started and run the basics. (I have a large Home with ground source heat pump and well).

I can run conduit or what and what ever size conductors I need to install the gen set. I will get a manual transfer switch as I will need to shut off a bunch of non critical loads prior to actual switching the power over. My intention is to kill utility power and switch to gen power.

The question I had was on the PTO Gen sets. Do they have outputs that by pass all the breakers where you can get the full 15 kw through a single set of conductors, so I can get a full 63 amps through to my panels without being tripped out by a too small breaker (50 Amp)?

I power my home when needed with an older Winpower alternator that used to keep a 70 cow dairy up and running when needed. I don't know the output offhand, but it's much bigger than I need and bigger than the PTO units typically discussed here. My transfer switch has individual #4 leads that plug directly into the alternator which has its main output protected by an onboard 100 amp circuit breaker. Big load capacity without big connector cost.

 

[tessiers]

As for fuel most people have 200 + gals of #2 fuel oil in their basement that will run a diesel tractor for an extended period of time. I have used an old generator, on the farm I worked at, that is capable of running a 50 head dairy farm, I don't know the cost of the plug but they have one. That generator has a full load receptical on it.

 

[RonMar]

You guys missed the question that I asked.

No we didn't. What part of hardwire the generator, or replace the 50A receptical and plug with a larger one didn't you understand?

Ok, to elaborate, you said the generator has a 50A 240V receptical. Well somewhere inside that junction box is 63A of capability that feeds the 240V and 120V recepticals. If the installed 50A receptical won't cut it for your single connection, you will have to dig into the box and bypass the factory receptical. IE, hardwire from this higher capacity point inside the generator junction box to your transfer switch, or put in a larger capacity receptical that connects back to that 63A of capability.

 

[RickB]

No we didn't. What part of hardwire the generator, or replace the 50A receptical and plug with a larger one didn't you understand?

Ok, to elaborate, you said the generator has a 50A 240V receptical. Well somewhere inside that junction box is 63A of capability that feeds the 240V and 120V recepticals. If the installed 50A receptical won't cut it for your single connection, you will have to dig into the box and bypass the factory receptical. IE, hardwire from this higher capacity point inside the generator junction box to your transfer switch, or put in a larger capacity receptical that connects back to that 63A of capability.

The fact of the matter is, if that generator gets a steady diet of outputting more than a 50 amp breaker can carry, it's going to have a short life. The 50 amp breaker and receptacle aren't there by accident. The next larger size breaker that is commonly available won't protect the unit.

 

[smitty9266]

A 50amp plug is plenty for your needs! The generator puts out MAX 63 amps at 220 or 31.5 amps per 110v line or 31.5 + 31.5 = 63 amps. You should be fine with a 50 amp plug. If you are worried put in a L14-60 plug or more appropriately put in full power 100 amp quick disconnects http://www.marinco.com/files/media/product/catelogs/Marinco%20pg38_1.pdf. Or you can use Anderson connectors which are standard full power outlets on some generators (note in this series of connectors only the same color connectors will mate together) SB175 SB Series 175 Amp Anderson Powerpole Set

But here in hurricane central IMHO, you are playing your power to close to the limits. If you are worrying about 10 amps you need to re think what you are powering or use a load shedder for a couple of high draw circuits. Guardian 5239 - PowerMaster Load Shedding Device

I have come back to edit my post....

The reason for the 50a outlet is for ease of use, the 50a plug, cord sets and inlet boxes are the most available solution for connection. If you want a full power outlet just buy one with it installed, they are available. Try the Tiger brand of PTO generators you will see they have a full power outlet with Anderson connectors

Jeff

 

[tommu56]

JackMentink

Friends of mine have a butcher shop and have a 20k or so 3 phase pto generator to keep the freezers and shop going when power is out.

Their generator has this type pf plug on it they linked together in a flat arrangement with the 5 poles.

Standard Powerpole Family

They have a dove tail on the sides of the plugs that are slid together to make connector and a bolt is put in to lock them in the configuration.
the mate is made up in a mirror image.

tom

 

[JackMentink]

A 50amp plug is plenty for your needs! The generator puts out MAX 63 amps at 220 or 31.5 amps per 110v line or 31.5 + 31.5 = 63 amps. You should be fine with a 50 amp plug. If you are worried put in a L14-60 plug or more appropriately put in full power 100 amp quick disconnects http://www.marinco.com/files/media/product/catelogs/Marinco%20pg38_1.pdf. Or you can use Anderson connectors which are standard full power outlets on some generators (note in this series of connectors only the same color connectors will mate together) SB175 SB Series 175 Amp Anderson Powerpole Set

But here in hurricane central IMHO, you are playing your power to close to the limits. If you are worrying about 10 amps you need to re think what you are powering or use a load shedder for a couple of high draw circuits. Guardian 5239 - PowerMaster Load Shedding Device

I have come back to edit my post....

The reason for the 50a outlet is for ease of use, the 50a plug, cord sets and inlet boxes are the most available solution for connection. If you want a full power outlet just buy one with it installed, they are available. Try the Tiger brand of PTO generators you will see they have a full power outlet with Anderson connectors

Jeff

The reason I am concerned is that a fact most people don't realize is that most breakers trip at 80% of there rated capacity. If this is the case then I would only be able to get 40 amps out of that outlet before tripping or 9.6 KW. Thus I wouldn't be able to use the full capability of the gen set. I will probably have to did into things and go inside the generator panel to get the full 63 amps. I have to start a large heat pump is the reason I need the full amperage. Unless the generator breakers are full load rated (which is very unusual). The other thought would be to run two twin cords and receptacles from the gen set , which may be cheaper than getting the larger cord and recepticle sets which are very expensive and somewhat difficult to find.

 

[hr3]

Jeff,, I'v been in the bussiness for 30 some odd years now and the only breakers i have seen that only pass 80% are very old and worn out ones .. In some of the plants I work in they load a breaker to 110% for several hours before there is a problem...Take the cord end off the gen. if there is one and put it straight into a 70 amp. disconnect...from there go to your 200 amp. transfer switch,,,"If it's a maunal kind it will not have a breaker"..at least most don't.... If you can discribe your service in more detail I could give you more detail on where the switch should go...


I did the pic in paint..not very good but you might get the idea..

 

[gregg17]

A breaker is rated to run at 80% not trip, over 80% will shorten its life and every time it trips will also do the same. a good quality breaker like SQ-D will hold a 100% load for a long time. That is what Ive seen 15 years in the buiseness.

 

[JackMentink]

Based on this information my intention would be to directly wire into a two 60 amp breaker and then go to a plug which would go into a recepticle which would go to a 100 amp manual transfer switch. I want to run into the main breaker panel side so I can run all my circuits. I have 75 cicuits between the panels and I want to run all, but just shut some off that i dont need.

I really dont want an automatic tranfer or one of the transfer switches that only lets you power 6-12 circuits. Just about all of my circuits are very lightly loaded and 15KW takes care of running everything most of the time. I have a continuous watt meter and it lets me know my loads. If I shut off one of my electric water heaters it should work great.

That would seem to work the best.

Any thoughts from others?

 

[RickB]

Based on this information my intention would be to directly wire into a two 60 amp breaker and then go to a plug which would go into a recepticle which would go to a 100 amp manual transfer switch. I want to run into the main breaker panel side so I can run all my circuits. I have 75 cicuits between the panels and I want to run all, but just shut some off that i dont need.

I really dont want an automatic tranfer or one of the transfer switches that only lets you power 6-12 circuits. Just about all of my circuits are very lightly loaded and 15KW takes care of running everything most of the time. I have a continuous watt meter and it lets me know my loads. If I shut off one of my electric water heaters it should work great.

That would seem to work the best.

Any thoughts from others?

THe manual transfer switch must match the amp rating of your service because it has to (potentially) handle that load as supplied from the grid. You may want a 100 amp transfer, but if you have a 200 amp service, you will get a 200 amp transfer switch to meet code.

 

[pat32rf]

Do you have the generator yet? I've found that those with 30-50 amp outlets are portable 4-6KW units that get moved around OR built in for light household use. I would expect that a 15KW unit would have one 250/110V 15KW outlet that lets you tie directly into a 15KW load. (with fuses, breakers, disconnects etc) Either a small permanent panel for those off the grid, or a transfer switch which feeds a panel of some type.
I'd just make sure that when you buy the genny, its designed for a single outlet....not broken down to a bunch of smaller ones. I left the trade 20yrs ago, things have changed a lot. I have one old genny sitting in my barn that has one 20A 230V plus two 15A110V outlets. Separate windings out for each. I have another newer unit that lets you take EITHER one 30A250V or four- 15A 110V, but not both at the same time, like the older unit.
( I tend to use 110/120 and 220/250 interchangeably, but you get the idea)