pto generator question

Tom_H · Jun 3, 2006

How many of you have those big stationary backup generators? What is your evaluation of them: load capacity, cost effectiveness, etc.? Natural gas is cheaper than propane, but I would think in a disaster that NG lines could be disrupted and that propane on hand would be a sure thing. Thoughts?

Tom_H · Jun 3, 2006

How many of you have those big stationary backup generators? What is your evaluation of them: load capacity, cost effectiveness, etc.? Natural gas is cheaper than propane, but I would think in a disaster that NG lines could be disrupted and that propane on hand would be a sure thing. Thoughts?

Farwell · Jun 4, 2006

Tom,
Not sure if you are in a fault zone, if you are your natural gas supply could be cut off as well as a fire hazard. That does not mean that the same thing won't happen with propane but less likely. If your NG is not a local supply and your supplier is in a fault area there is a good chance that you will loose your NG, if not from damage but from lines being shut down due to fire hazard.
I started a thread earlier in the year covering pretty much the same subject and still have not made up my mind but am thinking along the lines of getting a generator/welder combination.
I think that the price of propane costs more to purchase but it burns better than NG.
A problem with portable generators and probably with generator/welder combos is they may not be run often and may fail when most needed. Your stationary emergency back up generators are automatically started and run for a while to keep them in working condition.
Do a search for my thread because there was quite a bit of good information posted by TBN members that may help you make a decision.
I have a lot of family in the Sacramento area, I graduated from La Sierra high school in Carmichael and lived in Antioch for around 30 years. The area sure has changed.
Farwell

Farwell · Jun 4, 2006

Tom,
Not sure if you are in a fault zone, if you are your natural gas supply could be cut off as well as a fire hazard. That does not mean that the same thing won't happen with propane but less likely. If your NG is not a local supply and your supplier is in a fault area there is a good chance that you will loose your NG, if not from damage but from lines being shut down due to fire hazard.
I started a thread earlier in the year covering pretty much the same subject and still have not made up my mind but am thinking along the lines of getting a generator/welder combination.
I think that the price of propane costs more to purchase but it burns better than NG.
A problem with portable generators and probably with generator/welder combos is they may not be run often and may fail when most needed. Your stationary emergency back up generators are automatically started and run for a while to keep them in working condition.
Do a search for my thread because there was quite a bit of good information posted by TBN members that may help you make a decision.
I have a lot of family in the Sacramento area, I graduated from La Sierra high school in Carmichael and lived in Antioch for around 30 years. The area sure has changed.
Farwell

Stimw · Jun 4, 2006

I ran my generator 24 hours a day. I shut it off in the morning to fuel up and check oil and in the evening before dark. The near miss hurricane knocked down the high lines in my area and it took 5 days to get power on the main road, 4 days to get power to my road and 3 days to reset the breaker on my transformer. The power companies repair in that order. Largest, medium, then small users.
Most of those generator heads need 3600 RPM. If your tractor has 1000 PTO you need a 3.2 to 1 drive belt system to run it. I wouldn't want my tractor running like that even for 4 hours a day just sitting still. I average about 1 gal an hour with normal usage on my Branson.
I have a 2000 sq. ft. shop and I disconnect my main breaker at the pole and plug the generator into a welding plug in the shop with a patch cord. So I can run most electrical stuff as normal. I had no problems with the fridge, even the ice maker worked OK.
5 years ago I got a deal on a 15KW 3PH LP Onan generator. I hooked it up with a 20 lb grill tank and it sucked it dry in 45 minutes. The tank got so cold that condensation froze it to the concrete it was sitting on. At the time a 20lb tank fill was $10. I sold it!!

Stimw · Jun 4, 2006

I ran my generator 24 hours a day. I shut it off in the morning to fuel up and check oil and in the evening before dark. The near miss hurricane knocked down the high lines in my area and it took 5 days to get power on the main road, 4 days to get power to my road and 3 days to reset the breaker on my transformer. The power companies repair in that order. Largest, medium, then small users.
Most of those generator heads need 3600 RPM. If your tractor has 1000 PTO you need a 3.2 to 1 drive belt system to run it. I wouldn't want my tractor running like that even for 4 hours a day just sitting still. I average about 1 gal an hour with normal usage on my Branson.
I have a 2000 sq. ft. shop and I disconnect my main breaker at the pole and plug the generator into a welding plug in the shop with a patch cord. So I can run most electrical stuff as normal. I had no problems with the fridge, even the ice maker worked OK.
5 years ago I got a deal on a 15KW 3PH LP Onan generator. I hooked it up with a 20 lb grill tank and it sucked it dry in 45 minutes. The tank got so cold that condensation froze it to the concrete it was sitting on. At the time a 20lb tank fill was $10. I sold it!!

Slamfire · Jun 5, 2006

We live in a small hanging valley on the side of the Smokey Mtns. Our biggest outage was caused by an ice storm, and power was out for 9 days. Almost nobody stores enough gasoline or diesel fuel for that length of time. The local supply dried up, and you couldn't get down the mountain to the nearest gas. I converted my generator to propane, actually dual fuel. We can heat and cook with wood stoves, but need that water. I'd worry that the governor on the tractor was not sensitive enough to keep the frequency of the generator at 60 cycles. Bad things can happen to the motors in your appliances if the frequency gets too low. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Slamfire · Jun 5, 2006

We live in a small hanging valley on the side of the Smokey Mtns. Our biggest outage was caused by an ice storm, and power was out for 9 days. Almost nobody stores enough gasoline or diesel fuel for that length of time. The local supply dried up, and you couldn't get down the mountain to the nearest gas. I converted my generator to propane, actually dual fuel. We can heat and cook with wood stoves, but need that water. I'd worry that the governor on the tractor was not sensitive enough to keep the frequency of the generator at 60 cycles. Bad things can happen to the motors in your appliances if the frequency gets too low. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

BrianW · Jun 5, 2006

I did some calculations on how much fuel I would need to keep the freezer and refridgerator up an running in a prolonge power outage. I then went out and bought a Honda EU2000. This is an inverter equiped generator. What this means is the generator RPM is not tied to 60Hz. It has an econo throttle setting that sets the RPM based on load demand. I was able to run my refrigerator and a light in the house for about 1 gal. a day! I only fired up the big generator as needed for the high load uses. The EU2000 is so quiet that my neighbors were stopping in front of my house trying to figure out why we still had power /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

BrianW · Jun 5, 2006

I did some calculations on how much fuel I would need to keep the freezer and refridgerator up an running in a prolonge power outage. I then went out and bought a Honda EU2000. This is an inverter equiped generator. What this means is the generator RPM is not tied to 60Hz. It has an econo throttle setting that sets the RPM based on load demand. I was able to run my refrigerator and a light in the house for about 1 gal. a day! I only fired up the big generator as needed for the high load uses. The EU2000 is so quiet that my neighbors were stopping in front of my house trying to figure out why we still had power /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Highbeam · Jun 5, 2006

We don't loose power often and when we do it rarely stays off for more than a couple of days. This last one happened with a windstorm and the temps below 20.

I got home well after dark to fire up the genny in the howling 17 degree wind. Coleman 5500 with 11HP tecumseh engine has been trouble free power for camping, welding, misc.

I was a victim of heavy cold oil, and a carburetor bowl of bad gas. After much frustration I got it running and powered lights, an electric heater, fridge, and the TV all with extension cords and power strips. I don't want a suicide cord and don't have a transfer switch at this house. Nothing wrong with extension cords.

I am at fault for failure to excersize the generator. The gas (all my gasoline year round) is treated with sta-bil but you actually have to run these things regularly to keep them happy.

Are you willing or know how to pull a cord until you are beat, pop the carburetor bowl off in dark, howling 17 degree wind, dump the fuel on the ground and then reassemble to get power to your family? I am, I still wouldn't trade it for a PTO genny.

Highbeam · Jun 5, 2006

We don't loose power often and when we do it rarely stays off for more than a couple of days. This last one happened with a windstorm and the temps below 20.

I got home well after dark to fire up the genny in the howling 17 degree wind. Coleman 5500 with 11HP tecumseh engine has been trouble free power for camping, welding, misc.

I was a victim of heavy cold oil, and a carburetor bowl of bad gas. After much frustration I got it running and powered lights, an electric heater, fridge, and the TV all with extension cords and power strips. I don't want a suicide cord and don't have a transfer switch at this house. Nothing wrong with extension cords.

I am at fault for failure to excersize the generator. The gas (all my gasoline year round) is treated with sta-bil but you actually have to run these things regularly to keep them happy.

Are you willing or know how to pull a cord until you are beat, pop the carburetor bowl off in dark, howling 17 degree wind, dump the fuel on the ground and then reassemble to get power to your family? I am, I still wouldn't trade it for a PTO genny.

Highbeam · Jun 5, 2006

Those Honda eu2000i generators are the cats meow in the RV world too. Fantasticaly quiet and you can pick them up with one hand and put them in the trunk of your car. They are about double the cost of a 5000 watt Briggs model though.

Highbeam · Jun 5, 2006

Those Honda eu2000i generators are the cats meow in the RV world too. Fantasticaly quiet and you can pick them up with one hand and put them in the trunk of your car. They are about double the cost of a 5000 watt Briggs model though.

Soundguy · Jun 5, 2006

( I'd worry that the governor on the tractor was not sensitive enough to keep the frequency of the generator at 60 cycles. )

Of course.. individual results will vary base don the maintenance and upkeep of your tractor.. however an average govenor or better will be 'good enough'. Another thing is to have more tractor hp available then needed for the generator output... That way the governor isn't having to do as much..plus more hp available usually menas bigger tractor.. thus bigger flywheel and engine.. which is a kinteic battery, and help 'power thru' spike loads..

For instance.. My 8n at 26 hp is just adequate to power my 12.5kw pto genny. Heavy loads DO work the governor.. however I've been able to keep the needle in the green on the meter. That same genny on my ford 5000 or NH 7610s.. and welll .... the engine rpm doesn't even change if you kick 10-20 amp loads on ( motor starts included )... gov doesn't have to do much when you have 2x to 3x the hp available...

Soundguy

Soundguy · Jun 5, 2006

( I'd worry that the governor on the tractor was not sensitive enough to keep the frequency of the generator at 60 cycles. )

Of course.. individual results will vary base don the maintenance and upkeep of your tractor.. however an average govenor or better will be 'good enough'. Another thing is to have more tractor hp available then needed for the generator output... That way the governor isn't having to do as much..plus more hp available usually menas bigger tractor.. thus bigger flywheel and engine.. which is a kinteic battery, and help 'power thru' spike loads..

For instance.. My 8n at 26 hp is just adequate to power my 12.5kw pto genny. Heavy loads DO work the governor.. however I've been able to keep the needle in the green on the meter. That same genny on my ford 5000 or NH 7610s.. and welll .... the engine rpm doesn't even change if you kick 10-20 amp loads on ( motor starts included )... gov doesn't have to do much when you have 2x to 3x the hp available...

Soundguy

Doc_Bob · Jun 5, 2006

( This is an inverter equiped generator. What this means is the generator RPM is not tied to 60Hz. It has an econo throttle setting that sets the RPM based on load demand. I was able to run my refrigerator and a light in the house for about 1 gal. a day! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. )

Did you include the light in the frig? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Bob

Doc_Bob · Jun 5, 2006

( This is an inverter equiped generator. What this means is the generator RPM is not tied to 60Hz. It has an econo throttle setting that sets the RPM based on load demand. I was able to run my refrigerator and a light in the house for about 1 gal. a day! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. )

Did you include the light in the frig? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Bob