PTO generator sizing

[CincyFlyer]

Ok so seams like a good deal then, it痴 a 1800 rpm which is great also!

Hopefully it has some internal gearing, as the PTO is likely 540 rpm at near max engine RPM.

 

[Jcoon]

Hopefully it has some internal gearing, as the PTO is likely 540 rpm at near max engine RPM.

Well of coarse it’s got a gear box, it’s PTO generator. I was simply stating the generator head is a 1800rpm, instead of the 3600 rpm that most generators are, so it turns half the rpm that most generators do to create equal to or greater power.

 

[buickanddeere]

With "all the losses" through the system, you can pull 14kw out of a 28 pto hp tractor...

Those quoting higher, aren't figuring in the losses...

SR

You talking gross flywheel HP or PTO HP ?

 

[Jcoon]

Tractor is a 35 hp, although could be made 40 hp, as they are the same engine, just turned up a little more, I think I heard it’s actually the same engine up to the 50 or 55 HP.

 

[John_Mc]

OK, thanks. Will look into that.
Doing a little research after seeing this thread, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter how much I need to run the whole house. My 16 hp tractor tops out with a 7200 amp generator anyway. Pretty sure my heat pump will take a lot more than that to keep the house warm. But, if I can power the fire place fan, the frig, the microwave, coffee maker and a couple of lights available, we'll survive till the power comes back on. Or, I run out of diesel.

Looking at the breaker size in your panel for the heat pump will give you a rough idea of what you need to run it. The breaker is going to be larger than the max draw of the heat pump. The name plate data no the heat pump woudl be even better, but depending on your installation it may be hard to get to. A 7200 watt generator should put out about 30 amps.

Personally, I prefer a stand-alone generator for emergency power. I seem to end up using my tractor pretty heavily during power outages.

With some careful load management, I ran my 2200 sq ft house (not including the basement, some of which is finished) with a 4000 watt continuous / 6600 watt surge generator during some extended power outages. My house is definitely not "all electric" like yours, Blackrams. I also had to do some switching here and their (for example, shutting of either my fridge or freezer before kicking on the deep well pump, which has a pretty good surge on startup). It took some attention to what we were running simultaneously, but it was manageable

 

[John_Mc]

With "all the losses" through the system, you can pull 14kw out of a 28 pto hp tractor...

Those quoting higher, aren't figuring in the losses...

Agreed. a 2:1 ratio of PTO HP (NOT engine HP) to KW load is a pretty good rule of thumb. If you exceed that, you risk voltage and frequency drops when under heavy loads or surges.

 

[blackrams]

Looking at the breaker size in your panel for the heat pump will give you a rough idea of what you need to run it. The breaker is going to be larger than the max draw of the heat pump. The name plate data no the heat pump woudl be even better, but depending on your installation it may be hard to get to. A 7200 watt generator should put out about 30 amps.

Personally, I prefer a stand-alone generator for emergency power. I seem to end up using my tractor pretty heavily during power outages.

With some careful load management, I ran my 2200 sq ft house (not including the basement, some of which is finished) with a 4000 watt continuous / 6600 watt surge generator during some extended power outages. My house is definitely not "all electric" like yours, Blackrams. I also had to do some switching here and their (for example, shutting of either my fridge or freezer before kicking on the deep well pump, which has a pretty good surge on startup). It took some attention to what we were running simultaneously, but it was manageable

Thanks for responding.

Yep, I've got a 4500 Onan that I took out of an older self-contained RV. Used it once so far in five years. Was thinking the PTO generator would be an up grade but, maybe not. That Onan is a butt kick'n generator. Hard to beat, just was hoping to give my better half more energy for that "hot air" blower she can't live without.

Rams :drink:

 

[Industrial Toys]

The PTO set was a PITA! Nice to have vs nothing, but still a pain. MOST times, you never know how long the power will be out, and THAT IS THE PROBLEM! How much bother do you want to go through? I am five minutes from having whole property power now compared to maybe half an hour or better with the PTO set. That includes getting dressed and walking a couple hundred yards to the generator.

If there was something on the tractor, the genset was buried, the tractor was buried, it was dark or the weather was bad, the operation took longer. Sometimes if it was getting late, I just wouldn't even bother. Shame. You have it, but it's too much hassle! And working with a GREASY pto coupling is always a treat. AND THEN, The power comes back on!

 

[Sawyer Rob]

If there was something on the tractor, the genset was buried, the tractor was buried, it was dark or the weather was bad, the operation took longer. Sometimes if it was getting late, I just wouldn't even bother. Shame. You have it, but it's too much hassle! And working with a GREASY pto coupling is always a treat. AND THEN, The power comes back on!

First of all, I sure don't need power for an half hour outage! lol

Secondly, just because you handled your pto genset "set up" poorly, that's not the generators problem!

Setting up a pto generator so all you have to do is drive the tractor over, hook up the pto shaft, just isn't a problem for me. In fact, my tractor is all warmed up when I get to the short distance the generator is sitting from the tractor.

NO generator is going to be much good, IF it's stored in the back of some building... lol

SR

 

[blackrams]

AND THEN, The power comes back on!

Some times, if you're lucky.

Went 8 days with no power in Mississippi once. IIRC that was back in 95, Remember, feeling cold is relative to what you're used to. But, that was a freak year and it was below zero most all of that time. Had two young'ns back then, a toddler and an infant. Busted my butt for 8+ days cutting firewood and keeping a fire going in the fireplace, heated water on the BBQ outside. All this while I continued to go to work and sit in the dark just incase the power came back on.

Today, I now have a pace maker and other issues, such an endeavor would probably kill me. Not taking silly chances. NO power and I'm going somewhere that has power.

Rams

 

[Jcoon]

It will take me longer to crank over the gas generator and fill that up than it will to hook the pto generator up, tractor and generator sit in a storage shed wth battery operated motion sensing lights, my wife could hook everything up in less than a half hour! Lol

If I wanted easy, I wouldn’t live out in the sticks 500’ off the road 25 minutes from town lol

 

[fried1765]

Thanks for responding.

Yep, I've got a 4500 Onan that I took out of an older self-contained RV. Used it once so far in five years. Was thinking the PTO generator would be an up grade but, maybe not. That Onan is a butt kick'n generator. Hard to beat, just was hoping to give my better half more energy for that "hot air" blower she can't live without.

Rams :drink:

That 4.5K Onan is a magnificent piece of machinery!
KEEP IT !!!
I had a 5K Onan removed from an RV, many years ago, and I mounted it on a cart.
1800 RPM, and bulletproof!
Lost it (and everything else) in a major fire.
Bought a 6.5K Honda as a replacement (cost $1800 in 1989), and it too has been great.

 

[KYErik]

Maybe someone already made this point, but what if it is -10 outside when the power goes out and the tractor can't be started without a block heater? If you get the PTO generator, it might be good to have a small gas generator as a backup just in case. You could always use it to run a block heater if the tractor won't start.

 

[Jcoon]

I have a small gas gen. It was -21 here last Thursday, tractor started just fine though, tractor is inside out of the weather.

 

[Industrial Toys]

The more generators, inverters, ups'es and other resources you have, the better. Candles, LED lights, you name it. I know a millionaire with tons of equipment and during a power outage, saw him fumbling in a drawer for a cheap POS plastic flashlight that didn't even work. Some people can be such winners in one thing and total losers in another. lol

 

[Jcoon]

And that’s a fact! One can never be to prepared.

 

[TheMan419]

Thanks for responding.

Yep, I've got a 4500 Onan that I took out of an older self-contained RV. Used it once so far in five years. Was thinking the PTO generator would be an up grade but, maybe not. That Onan is a butt kick'n generator. Hard to beat, just was hoping to give my better half more energy for that "hot air" blower she can't live without.

Rams :drink:

Can you keep both? That way if you need the tractor during power outage you can run the Onan and keep the basics running. Then if you need to really run some juice through the house you can hook up to the PTO gen set.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Consider your fuel source.

Running a generator for an extended period can use a lot of fuel. After tropical storm Lee in 2011, the power was out for 8 days. I have 2 portable Honda generators which used up my gasoline supply in just 4 days. Since it was a wide spread power outage, there were no gas stations open in the entire area. I siphoned what I could from our vehicles to get by. Storing a large supply of gas can be a problem since it goes stale after a few months. My neighbor ruined his generator by using "old" gas.

After that experience, I invested in a 14 KW PTO generator which I power with my Kubota L3430. I have oil heat and a 550 gal. oil tank. I used oil from that to fuel the tractor / PTO generator for a 9 day outage during hurricane Sandy in 2012. I now can go without power for a month or more with this setup.

 

[CMV]

I use 2.5k & 4K gasoline generators. They will power some basics for an extended period of time & the smaller size with light loads sip fuel. I keep 8 5-gal cans stored. Kind of a pain dumping those into vehicles and refilling every spring & fall, but worthwhile overall I guess. With cycling the generator on/off vs running 24/7, 40 gal will stretch for quite a while.

I can see where a large PTO generator would be real nice - esp if you're already storing bulk amount of diesel. I can run enough stuff from smaller gasoline ones though to be OK. Not whole house, but can cycle fridge & freezer, run a portable heater or AC to keep a bedroom at a nice temp, microwave, convenience electronics, recharge UPS, etc.

What are the benefits of a PTO vs standalone?
You're just paying for the generator and not the engine to drive it, so more watts for less $$$ ?
If you already have an amount of diesel stored, you're already storing and rotating the fuel?
No maintenance (or questionable operation from lack of) for generator engine?
What else would make PTO preferred over a standalone? I think I'd just be turning too big a generator for what i need (wasting fuel) and tying up the only tractor I have so wouldn't make sense for me. But can see on a farm or something - esp if there was something power-hungry to feed - where it would be nice.

 

[bdhsfz6]

I use 2.5k & 4K gasoline generators. They will power some basics for an extended period of time & the smaller size with light loads sip fuel. I keep 8 5-gal cans stored. Kind of a pain dumping those into vehicles and refilling every spring & fall, but worthwhile overall I guess. With cycling the generator on/off vs running 24/7, 40 gal will stretch for quite a while.

I can see where a large PTO generator would be real nice - esp if you're already storing bulk amount of diesel. I can run enough stuff from smaller gasoline ones though to be OK. Not whole house, but can cycle fridge & freezer, run a portable heater or AC to keep a bedroom at a nice temp, microwave, convenience electronics, recharge UPS, etc.

What are the benefits of a PTO vs standalone?
You're just paying for the generator and not the engine to drive it, so more watts for less $$$ ?
If you already have an amount of diesel stored, you're already storing and rotating the fuel?
No maintenance (or questionable operation from lack of) for generator engine?
What else would make PTO preferred over a standalone? I think I'd just be turning too big a generator for what i need (wasting fuel) and tying up the only tractor I have so wouldn't make sense for me. But can see on a farm or something - esp if there was something power-hungry to feed - where it would be nice.

You've pretty much got the PTO gen advantages listed. I suppose it depends on how much your minimum power requirement is during an outage. Except for heat, everything else is electric at my place. I started out with one portable generator and quickly found it wasn't enough. Adding a second was necessary. For me, the constant need to go outside and refuel was the biggest PIA. The initial setup to get them up and running was also a negative. I think a single larger generator would be less work but would use more fuel running 24 / 7. I used to shut down the larger generator at night and leave the smaller one running to power the fridge, freezer and oil burner.

Admittedly, there is some work required to set up the PTO Gen. I have to roll the generator trailer up to the tractor, connect the driveshaft and plug it in to the transfer switch. If a storm is predicted, I'll usually remove whatever implement is on the tractor just in case. The tractor fuel use will vary with the electrical load but I usually only have to refuel 1 or 2 times in 24 hours. If I need the tractor for another purpose during an outage, I'll hook up one of the gas generators if necessary. During warm weather, I'll just let the house go dark for a few hours.

If I had it to do over again, I would consider a propane powered whole house automatic standby generator. If you wire the transfer switch yourself, the cost is maybe twice what you would pay for a big PTO generator. I'm not getting any younger and the automatic feature would make it worth the $$ IMO.