PTO generator who has one??

[Skyco]

I bought one of these Kill-A-Watt things - http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93519
a few years back when Radio Shack sold them. Very handy- reads out Hertz and volts/amps/watts etc....very handy for finding out just how much something uses though it won't work on your 220VAC items. Obviously with the Hertz display one can dial in a generator dead on the money

 

[Shimon]

what kind of instrument/meter is that you have on your system? Very nice!

It's a Blue Seas Systems AC Digital Mutimeter. I've installed many of them on boats as well as lots of other Blue Seas products and I knew I wanted one for my gen; it will display volts, amps, frequency, and watts for each of the two legs (you need to use the switch from this panel to switch between the two legs and show both legs at the same time...can't use a double throw switch). Plus it makes it really easy when it's dark and rainy (which is the case 100% when we loose power) to see the frequency as I adjust the throttle.

How do adjust the frequency? Do you mean by adjusting the RPM of the engine the frequency changes?

Yes, you adjust the frequency with the throttle and then the injection pump governor tries to maintain that RPM (whatever gives you 540RPM at the PTO) even as the load changes but sometimes you need to bump the throttle up or down as load changes dramatically because the governor can't keep up. I usually start at 63Hz no load then start loading up the gen which brings the freq pretty close to 60Hz which is your target. I also keep a small digital multimeter (Fluke 111) plugged into an outlet in the house to see if there are any huge fluctuations. You can see incandescent lights get brighter and dimmer as the voltage changes. On this unit the voltage and frequency seem to be linear...so as freq drops so does voltage (courtesy of the simplistic voltage regulator). So, I can also tell if the frequency is off by the brightness of the lights. Remember, the 60Hz frequency is critical for motors (refer, water pump, heater blower, etc...).\

Seems the Eastern part of the US has more problems with electrical outages.

I don't agree. We loose power a lot here on the West coast. Primarily because we are at the end of the line of the power pole run and that run has LOTS of trees next to them so anytime it rains and gets windy (it is the Pacific NW after all) which is a lot trees and branches fall and take out the lines. I think it all depends on the age of the equipment, how well it's kept up and then tree and falling object issue. Maybe the East coast does have older equipment...I don't know.

You got that baby hooked up to some kinda fancy transfer switch? Is it backfeeding into your mains?

Yes it's backfeeding the mains through a switch and a breaker (60A 2 pole). So the main breaker must be off before starting. What I recommend is to pull the power meter so you disconnect the neutral from the grid which will prevent the backfeeding issue (check with the power company first because this can really piss them off). If you just turn off your main CB then you are just cutting off the two hots, not the neutral. The problem that can arise is that if you have a short to ground and your ground system is not installed properly or poorly maintained then that short will travel back to ground through the neutral wire and can kill or injure a lineman working on the grid (remember your 240V or 120V short will go back through the transformer on the pole and get converted to thousands of volts). Actually what will most likely happen is that the short ends up feeding all the loads out there on the grid so your gen breaker or load breaker (for the source of the short) will trip. However, you can't be too careful and killing or injuring a lineman will ruin a lot of people's days. Anyway, I recently put in a whole new ground system with new rods (multiple rods for each building and the hot tub) and put my clamp on ammeter on the ground to see if there is any current plus I check the physical condition of the rods (what I can see of them), the wiring and the connections. You can check continuity from the rod to the CB panel but this isn't a real world test because there is no load on the system. Bottom line is that if you don't know what you are doing, get a qualified electrician to hook things up for you. Too many bad things can happen. Sorry for the long explanation.

 

[atgreene]

Thanks for the info. I'll see about up-grading immediately.

 

[CamshaftLF]

16 valex: check out the tiger power line they have 5yr wanty, I purchased one 2yrs ago for 1300 out the door great company 10kw runs everything well pump and all I spin it whit a L2350, doesn't make it work at all. has electronic regulator not capassitors, digital read out of kw your using and volts. Tigerpower pto genarators Dynatech -Generator Specialist headquartered in Lebanon | Pa | DynaTech (800) 779-8809 HIGHLY RECOMMENDED | EDITOR'S CHOICE they can hook you up to a dealer near you

 

[crbr]

So the main breaker must be off before starting. What I recommend is to pull the power meter so you disconnect the neutral from the grid which will prevent the backfeeding issue (check with the power company first because this can really piss them off). If you just turn off your main CB then you are just cutting off the two hots, not the neutral. The problem that can arise is that if you have a short to ground and your ground system is not installed properly or poorly maintained then that short will travel back to ground through the neutral wire and can kill or injure a lineman working on the grid (remember your 240V or 120V short will go back through the transformer on the pole and get converted to thousands of volts). Actually what will most likely happen is that the short ends up feeding all the loads out there on the grid so your gen breaker or load breaker (for the source of the short) will trip. .......

Is this a reference to "before starting to install the gen backfeed?"

 

[Shimon]

Is this a reference to "before starting to install the gen backfeed?"

I'm not sure I understand your question. Can you please elaborate.

 

[16valex]

16 valex: check out the tiger power line they have 5yr wanty, I purchased one 2yrs ago for 1300 out the door great company 10kw runs everything well pump and all I spin it whit a L2350, doesn't make it work at all. has electronic regulator not capassitors, digital read out of kw your using and volts. Tigerpower pto genarators Dynatech -Generator Specialist headquartered in Lebanon | Pa | DynaTech (800) 779-8809 HIGHLY RECOMMENDED | EDITOR'S CHOICE they can hook you up to a dealer near you

Thanks for the link. Rugged looking and nice color too. I'll give them a call

 

[Soundguy]

A freq counter or VOM with a freq function should be available at most supply stores that sell meters.

freq will be a direct relation to your pto rpm.. IE.. run the genny at exactly the rpm it wants.. and thet is when yuo will gett he correct freq. Let oyur governor throttle up for power if the load goes up.. That's the benefit of having more tractor than needed. A 12 kw genny on a 24 pto hp tractor works fine on paper. However, in practice.. a 12kw genny on.. say? a 40-50+ pto hp tractor works better... more reserve torque and hp so that rpm doesn't drop while waiting for gov'ner to pump engine up during high loads... more rotational mass int he engine helps this as well. And.. as long as your engine is running pretty good, you won't burn that much more fuel than you need based on pto load.. etc... so having the larger tractor run is not a huge waste of fuel.. etc.

Soundguy

I spoke too soon . Lost power last night about 7 pm, ran the old girl till 5 am.

Maybe someone can guide me here, under certain circumstances, the pto gen won't power the well pump (3/4 hp). Last night we lost water, went down and lifted the lever to bring the pressure up and it kept cutting out (internal circuit breaker?).

Went out and checked the gen, meter was reading 230 v or so, so I idled back a hair and it seemed to be fine. Not sure if an a/c was running and caused the pump to kick out or my adjustment fixed it. I know that hz? must be off slightly, as my UPS for the 'puter won't work when powered by the gen, it detects a voltage/hz problem so we don't use it while on gen. All the other electronics are fine, and my outlets read 110-120 depending on load. How do I check hz and where do I get a meter if that's what I need?

 

[simonmeridew]

the easiest way to check hz is to find an old plug-in dial type alarm clock; it's the utility regulated hz that keeps them phenominally accurate. So plug the clock into the generator and synchronize the second hand with your watch's, and let it run for an hour. Check the times and you'll know about either too high or too low, and by how much.
simonmeridew