PTO Generators

[Bear Foot Farm]

Seems to me a pump would need at least as much power as a generator.

The difference is if you run the tractor slower with a pump, you simply move less water

With a generator, you're not producing the correct voltage

With water it doesnt hurt anything
With electricity you can do damage

 

[Porkie]

Apparently, this is drawing some attention! I really enjoy this forum for all of our diverse ideas and opinions. I feel that there is a lot of expertise here.

In southwest Missouri, we lose power 2-3 times per year, ranging from short periods of 5 hours to 2 weeks! (OH MY GOD!!!) Last year, in February, we were down for 7 days and 12 hours! Anyone that has experienced this knows how much FUN it is!

20 degrees at night, maybe 30 or so daytime degrees. 6,000 sq ft home, all electric, except for a "heat & glo" enclosed fireplace in the den. It is only 30% effective when the electric blower doesn't work!!!! Now I know how the Eskimo's feel!

I have had 2 Honda 2300 watt generators for maybe 25 years or so, that still start on the first or second pull, use no oil and have the original sparkplugs in them. The generator will run 12 hours on 3 gallons of gas and provide minimal living power: Widescreen HD TV, lights, small electric heater, 4 laptop computers and the aforementioned fireplace blower. I haven't really used both generators at the same time.

******* Sorry field corn growers but who ever invented "ETHANOL" for fuel usage, should be shot! (LEVITY intended) It hasn't done a thing to lessen our dependence on imported oil at all! It is just another cash crop for subsidised farmers.(LEVITY again)

We have a big problem in this country with the effects of ethanol on gasoline powered equipment: it is ruining and/ or making weed eaters, tillers, lawn mowers, chainsaws and GENERATORS, just to name a few, become inoperative because of jet blocking and plastic/ rubber deterioration in the carbs and fuel systems. (another cash crop for lawn mower shops)

Now the FED's want to add 15% ethanol to our fuel---you know, to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. (MUCH levity)

So-----this has been on my mind for some time, since I'm very tired of taking carb's apart, blowing jets out and replacing fuel lines, gaskets and pumps: EUREKA!!!!!!!!! Why not buy a generator that runs on DIESEL fuel!!!!!

I've looked at stand alone diesel generators and have known a little about PTO generators but not enough to make an intelligent decision, so that's why I posted this topic.

I have ran my Honda generator for 24 hours, for 7 1/2 days straight with no problems, during our last ice storm and resultant power loss. I'm told that it's no problem for our diesel tractors to do the same thing, with the exception of the approximately 1 gallon per hour fuel consumption----but I still feel weird letting my tractor sit there and run unattended for long periods of time!!!

Thanks again for the comments!

Sam

 

[Qapla]

This has been an interesting thread. Two things have come to mind:

1) Many have mentioned using their generators 24/7 (so to speak) with no problems. In order to do this, you need to add fuel to the generator while it is running. If I am not mistaken, the instructions for most machinery tell you to shut it down to re-fuel, for safety reasons.

2) How many of us are short-changing ourselves when it comes to our backup power?

We have a 7500 KW gas generator. I have used this for work as well as for the house when the power was off for extended periods. For just a few hours, I have used a power inverter connected to my truck to keep the TV and computers and some light on (I have a 1500W and a couple 500W inverters)

I have wanted to get a diesel generator. I considered the PTO type before and decided against it. To get what I would like, it would be impractical. I would get a more fuel efficient and quieter unit that could be connected with an automatic switch by going stand alone. This is primarily because I would like to get something in the 50KW-70KW range.

Why? I have a 250 amp main. Using the math (250 amps X 240 volts = 60000 watts) I would need to have one that size to completely power the house with no regard to what we turn on or leave off.

From what I have found, the fuel usage between a 20KW to the 80KW is not that much different. The larger units are generally made to high standards and run much quieter and are fuel efficient since they are often used in industrial settings.

When I do get there, I will probably have to go used since new is quite expensive these days.

 

[JoelD]

60KW is commercial stuff, big cat motor etc. I can't imagine what your home could possibly have that would call for 60KW?

You need to figure out the demand and go from there.

TV 500 watts, AC maybe 2000watts, you need a bunch of stuff to add up to 60kw.

Joel

 

[k0ua]

Let me add my 2 cents.. 50 60 KW for whole house.. yep possible.. some houses use more juice than others.. Heat pump, reserve heat. 80 amps right there just for the resistive heat. My house is 200 amp service. my generator is a little 6500 gas powered.. there are pro's and con's to the pto generator. Actually lots of people run their tractors for a week or more. (porkie, Dave
WA0RVK ran his for over 10 days straight in Monett last storm) So I think the tractors can take it well, probably a lot better than a gas powered engine. One con tho is you might need the tractor to clear off the ice and snow, and push/pickup the downed trees that usually happen at the same time as the power outage. Of course the smallest of the PTO gen. are a lot bigger than my little gas unit. Like you I have thought about it, but not laid down any money, but running the tractor is not my prime concern. I know my friend Dave would not be without his I think it is 30 or 40 KW, but his tractor is 90 HP too

 

[crazyal]

75K, wow, that'd be a big unit. I have a 4200 gasser with a Honda but would love to upgrade to a 10k to 13k diesel unit. I can run everything I need to off of what I have now other than the electric stove as long as I plan it out. Like I run things like the well pump, fridge, freezer, etc. one at a time. Being up north we don't have electric heat and the furnace heats the hot water so it doesn't draw much.

I looked into small Kubota diesel generators. I think the 10k one goes for about $5k and uses .4 of a gallon an hour at half load. A PTO generator of that size is only about 1/4 the cost but I would think that the extra costs oil and hydraulic fluid changes would add up. I week of running a PTO gen would be about half of the hours between services.

 

[Qapla]

75K, wow,

Oops. I meant a 7500 WATT generator with a gas engine and elec start

60KW is commercial stuff, big cat motor etc. I can't imagine what your home could possibly have that would call for 60KW?

Did you look at the math? Watts = Volts X Amps

Since the house has 250 amp service and the power is 240V, simple math puts the MAX watts at 60000. This does not mean that we use that amount. After all, we have never tripped the main.

Max demand would be 60000. I did say 50-70 KW. I am sure a 50KW would get me by. (50KW = 200 amp service)

We have a 5 ton package unit Heat Pump/AC with 10KW strips. This requires a 60 amp circuit and a 40 amp circuit. That alone is 2400 amps.

Then there are two refrigerators, two freezers, microwave, washer, dryer, two water heaters, dishwasher, TV sets, computer network, lights and a plethora of other things.

You need to figure out the demand and go from there.

If you recall my post, I did say that I would not want to have to worry about what was on or off. I don't want to have to "schedule" what we use. After all, If I am going to go to the expense of stand-bye power, I might as well make it convenient for me.

 

[tessiers]

What no one has mentioned is that Tractors are governed as well, if you set the RPM's at 540 PTO it will use the right amount of fuel for the load. Fuel consumption is proportional to the load, not so much the engine HP. I mow hay at 540 PTO speed and use a fair amount of fuel, ted hay at the same PTO speed and hardley use any fuel, then bale at the same PTO speed and suck the sides of the tank in, all with the same 1941 Farmall H. Tractors are made to run, period, at least farm type tractors, some of these compacts and sub-compacts may be an exception, I don't know. I would rather put my money into a multi-functional tool than a single use tool I need 2 or 3 times a year. Incedently, when we loose power half a dozen times a year we just go without it, we run the generator for a couple of hours morning and night and rough it otherwise.

 

[JoelD]

Oops. I meant a 7500 WATT generator with a gas engine and elec start



Did you look at the math? Watts = Volts X Amps

Since the house has 250 amp service and the power is 240V, simple math puts the MAX watts at 60000. This does not mean that we use that amount. After all, we have never tripped the main.

Max demand would be 60000. I did say 50-70 KW. I am sure a 50KW would get me by. (50KW = 200 amp service)

We have a 5 ton package unit Heat Pump/AC with 10KW strips. This requires a 60 amp circuit and a 40 amp circuit. That alone is 2400 amps.

Then there are two refrigerators, two freezers, microwave, washer, dryer, two water heaters, dishwasher, TV sets, computer network, lights and a plethora of other things.


If you recall my post, I did say that I would not want to have to worry about what was on or off. I don't want to have to "schedule" what we use. After all, If I am going to go to the expense of stand-bye power, I might as well make it convenient for me.

Sorry I aint to strong with that math stuff, all them figures confusses me a bunch, I runs out of fingers for ciphering at 10.

Point was / is, I've never seen a home / non-commercial building with anything near 60kw.

Your money.

If you want to be able to run everything at once, then as you've stated you'll need, based on what you've added above, a ton of watts, I'd be surprised if the heat pump is drawing 22KW, but if that is the case, and you want to run dryer and water heaters at the same time, then you would end up somewhere around what you are thinking. I can't imagine investing that kind of money into a generator for the occasions when the power goes out.

Obviously your decision. You'd almost need an outbuilding to store something that big out of the elements.

Where I live that kind of power consumption would be more money than the mortgage. We use much less electricity up North and a lot more oil.

PS> I'll try to work on my math skills. As a CPA I don't get much of a chance to work with numbers particularly tricky multiplication, and you'd think after wiring half my house (including my generator) and replacing the rectifier in my generator I'd understand the watts formula better, thanks for the refresher.

Joel

 

[JoelD]

What no one has mentioned is that Tractors are governed as well, if you set the RPM's at 540 PTO it will use the right amount of fuel for the load. Fuel consumption is proportional to the load, not so much the engine HP. I mow hay at 540 PTO speed and use a fair amount of fuel, ted hay at the same PTO speed and hardley use any fuel, then bale at the same PTO speed and suck the sides of the tank in, all with the same 1941 Farmall H. Tractors are made to run, period, at least farm type tractors, some of these compacts and sub-compacts may be an exception, I don't know. I would rather put my money into a multi-functional tool than a single use tool I need 2 or 3 times a year. Incedently, when we loose power half a dozen times a year we just go without it, we run the generator for a couple of hours morning and night and rough it otherwise.

Good point on the Governor.