PTO Generators

[Qapla]

JoelD - I enjoyed the post.
I will agree that it seems like a bit large for a "home" instead of a business. However, if I am going to make the plunge, I might as well get it all. Of course, I may never get that far :laughing:

I guess when you live in "South Canada" (NH) your power needs are a bit different then a peninsula that sticks out into the Atlantic and the Gulf. Power losses here are not that rare, especially during hurricane season - or for that matter, the rainy season. With 100_ degree weather (especially with heat index) and high humidity, heating oil is not the main concern - AC's do not run on heating oil - and we have kinda gotten used to a little relief from the sweltering weather by coming into a cool house.

New ones can be had for less than $20 K and some used ones for around $5-$9K

May seem like a lot, but the used ones are no more then a used car.

 

[dex3361]

JoelD - I enjoyed the post.
I will agree that it seems like a bit large for a "home" instead of a business. However, if I am going to make the plunge, I might as well get it all. Of course, I may never get that far :laughing:

I guess when you live in "South Canada" (NH) your power needs are a bit different then a peninsula that sticks out into the Atlantic and the Gulf. Power losses here are not that rare, especially during hurricane season - or for that matter, the rainy season. With 100_ degree weather (especially with heat index) and high humidity, heating oil is not the main concern - AC's do not run on heating oil - and we have kinda gotten used to a little relief from the sweltering weather by coming into a cool house.

New ones can be had for less than $20 K and some used ones for around $5-$9K

May seem like a lot, but the used ones are no more then a used car.

I like the idea of having all the power you may need. I suspect that you may be setting yourself up for diesel engine problems. Your normal load through the course of a day would be low probably below 10 KW or even
5 KW with a few minutes of higher KW usage. This would likely cause wet stacking from the diesel not running under enough of a load. Just something to think about.

 

[jakobvh]

...Using the math (250 amps X 240 volts = 60000 watts)...

I may be missing something but your tag says you're from Gainesville, Fl?

As a current electrical engineering student (In Australia) we're drilled that mains power in Australia and the Europe is 50Hz 230VAC and America is 60Hz 110VAC?
This puts your max power at under 30KW...?

Otherwise, from my experience, unless you're running 3 phase (commercial/industrial) equipment, you will need to daisy chain a LOT of power boards to reach 60KW consumption

 

[BethesdaEC]

I may be missing something but your tag says you're from Gainesville, Fl?

As a current electrical engineering student (In Australia) we're drilled that mains power in Australia and the Europe is 50Hz 230VAC and America is 60Hz 110VAC?
This puts your max power at under 30KW...?

Otherwise, from my experience, unless you're running 3 phase (commercial/industrial) equipment, you will need to daisy chain a LOT of power boards to reach 60KW consumption

In the US the wall outlets are 120V, but the feed is a two leg 240V feed that are 180 degrees out of phase. Any leg to neutral gives you 120V. The breakers alternate phase as they go down the breaker panel so we can put in a double breaker to get 240V at 50A or so to run ovens, air conditions, dryers etc.

 

[Qapla]

I may be missing something but your tag says you're from Gainesville, Fl? As a current electrical engineering student (In Australia) we're drilled that mains power in Australia and the Europe is 50Hz 230VAC and America is 60Hz 110VAC? This puts your max power at under 30KW...?

Don't know what they teach in school. It is true that US power is 60Hz, however, even though many people still refer to 110 power, it measures 120v, and has for more than 20 years.

However, the dryer, AC and the water heaters operate on 240V. If you measure the power at a single breaker, it will measure 120v. If you measure any two adjacent breakers, it will measure 240v. The MAIN is labeled as 250 amps. It is a "double" breaker and when measured, it reads 240v.

If you measure the incoming lugs from the electric meter, it will read 240v. So, what does this translate into for a wattage load?

I guess I could contact the electric company and ask them what would be needed to supply the "entire" house.

As for 3 phase, it comes in 3 flavors here (as far as I know). There is 208v. Then there is 240v Y configuration and 240v DELTA configuration. My house is not 3 phase, but my neighbor has 3 phase for his blueberries (he has almost 60 acres of them) He needs the 3 phase for his well pumps as well as some of his other equipment.

His well pumps are on stand-by power with very large diesel engines to run the pumps. They are not generators, the engines drive the pumps in case of power failure.

 

[crazyal]

I may be missing something but your tag says you're from Gainesville, Fl?

As a current electrical engineering student (In Australia) we're drilled that mains power in Australia and the Europe is 50Hz 230VAC and America is 60Hz 110VAC?
This puts your max power at under 30KW...?

Otherwise, from my experience, unless you're running 3 phase (commercial/industrial) equipment, you will need to daisy chain a LOT of power boards to reach 60KW consumption

Our mains are 220vac at 60Hz. We split it into two 110 legs for small appliances and 220 for larger things.

 

[jakobvh]

Don't know what they teach in school. It is true that US power is 60Hz, however, even though many people still refer to 110 power, it measures 120v, and has for more than 20 years.

I did know this(120VAC not 110VAC), how ever being 4:30am and studying for finals is not conducive to stopping typos! Its similar in Australia, in 2000 we switched from 240VAC to 230VAC to have a similar standard as Europe. I don't think many people noticed =P

However, the dryer, AC and the water heaters operate on 240V. If you measure the power at a single breaker, it will measure 120v. If you measure any two adjacent breakers, it will measure 240v. The MAIN is labeled as 250 amps. It is a "double" breaker and when measured, it reads 240v.

If you measure the incoming lugs from the electric meter, it will read 240v. So, what does this translate into for a wattage load?

This I didn't know. I've since read up on it a little more, essentially its 120-(-120)=240VAC. the transmission voltage is still 120V. I guess you could kinda call it two phase power =]

As for 3 phase, it comes in 3 flavors here (as far as I know). There is 208v. Then there is 240v Y configuration and 240v DELTA configuration.

This I do know about, Y (or Wye) or Delta configurations are similar, its just a matter of how the connections are made in the stator, i.e. do they have a common ground or not. In Australia they run 230VAC on each phase, with a phase offset of 0, +120 and +240 degrees respectively yielding 415VAC at the wall. 208V comes from exactly the same principle, only at 120V instead =]
I'm not sure where the 240V 3 Phase configurations come into, but I'll look into it more after my finals

For what its worth, I have a 2.5KW REM generator at home. We leave it at the bottom of the hill, pitch a big ol' scout tent and use it to power a couple of flood lights, laptop and big *** stereo system when we feel like having a bush bash party =] Works a treat!

Then we have an OLD OLD commercial generator, essentially a truck engine bolted to a 3phase stator. Though we haven't lost power in years, we keep it in case of emergency (bush fires) to make sure all the electric pumps are running before we switch to the firefighting pumps =]

 

[JoelD]

I'm still thinking 60KW is overkill.

That is a big machine to power a house.

But then maybe you've got a big house. We've got some 15K square footers in town and I'd expect those puppies have some big cooling systems. Although, for the most part we don't heat water with electric.

True in Florida you use a bunch more electricity than we do. Here in the North East AC means opening your windows at night and shutting them in the morning.

We use lots of power to heat and most of that is oil, propane and NG.

The boss is from Miami and we own property in Englewood, so we get the AC thing.

Still, 60KW, that is like having another car to maintain.

Looking forward to what you decide on.

Maybe with a 60KW machine you could sell back to the grid. Or charge neighbors for storm support.

Joel

 

[SPYDERLK]

Sorry I aint to strong with that math stuff, all them figures confusses me a bunch, I runs out of fingers for ciphering at 10.

Point was / is, I've never seen a home / non-commercial building with anything near 60kw.

Your money.

If you want to be able to run everything at once, then as you've stated you'll need, based on what you've added above, a ton of watts, I'd be surprised if the heat pump is drawing 22KW, but if that is the case, and you want to run dryer and water heaters at the same time, then you would end up somewhere around what you are thinking. I can't imagine investing that kind of money into a generator for the occasions when the power goes out.

Obviously your decision. You'd almost need an outbuilding to store something that big out of the elements.

Where I live that kind of power consumption would be more money than the mortgage. We use much less electricity up North and a lot more oil.

PS> I'll try to work on my math skills. As a CPA I don't get much of a chance to work with numbers particularly tricky multiplication, and you'd think after wiring half my house (including my generator) and replacing the rectifier in my generator I'd understand the watts formula better, thanks for the refresher.

Joel

:thumbsup: CUBED :thumbsup: [That means muliplying it times itself twice.]
larry

 

[Qapla]

Yes, here in Florida the houses use more electric than other power sources. Natural Gas is used for cooking and hot water, but that is mainly in cities where they have it. More houses are "All Electric", though.

Here in the rural's, people mostly use electric or LP. The cost of LP has gotten a bit high, though.

Also, in is no longer legal for builders to build houses that do not have conditioned air - this means heat and AC. Most of these are electric, though some do use NG/LP for the emergency heat.

Fuel oil is not that common anymore.

BTW - They refer to the standard 240v as single phase as opposed to 3 phase. Also, if you get a universal replacement motor for a AC unit, table saw, or some other device that comes with dual voltage, the wiring instruction are for 120/240 (I have not seen 110/220 on one in a long time)

Also, please do not hold your breath waiting for me to buy stand-by power, it may be a while (I have been out of work - just started back)