PTO Leaf Vac?

[CHDinCT]

If you consider a non-PTO leaf vac, take a look at the cyclone rake models. I have a smaller unit but the top of the line XL model goes for under $1,700 with a Briggs Vangaurd 9HP engine. Don't let the pic's of it matched to a rinky-dink lawn mower fool you. I have one and can vouch for the quality of the material, steel, etc. They make a hose attachment in 17' and 35' lengths, and you can upgrade the hose material to commercial quality. They also offer a 3PH mount. Good luck whatever you decide. Link below.


The Cyclone Rake XL. The King of Lawn Vacuums.

 

[TerryR]

I suspect it was my fault for Billy Goat being introduced. I can understand your desire to buy a "packaged" system, and I should have clarified that a leaf loader is definitely not the same thing.

No problem, Jerry. I understood what you were describing, and that makes perfect sense for someone with the tools and inclination to create a self-built system.

Having a number of years experience with my 8 hp Giant Vac with 7" hose, I avoid feeding it leaves directly. That's not to say I don't do it, but i have found it to be much more prone to clogging when collecting whole debris than that which has been shredded by the mower deck.

That's a concern I've not heard before. Perhaps that's why Trac Vac at least makes the extension hose that the manual pickup uses a size smaller than the main hose it connects to.

I have also seen a number of complaints about ease of emptying the collection trailers. Nobody seems to make a non-commercial size vac like mine with a hopper discharge that gravity unloads very well.

Trac Vac says there trailer is wider at the back than at the front to help with that, although Ron says his doesn't tip high enough for good unloading.

Finally, I think avoiding "another engine to maintain", which I read on this site a lot, is much ado over nothing. One oil change per year and make sure it has fresh gas is pretty much all the two Briggs engines (leaf vac and log splitter) and Tecumseh (Ariens snowblower) get and they give me no trouble.

You're supposed to change oil every year on those things? My generator has had its oil changed once in 10 years.

Yes, I know I should, but the reality is I never do it.

Terry

 

[TerryR]

I have a similar situation; 1400 foot drive with about 1000 feet of that in the woods, along the side of a hill. I'm trying to figure out how to mount the hose so I can drive the tractor along the ditch, without stopping. I'm envisioning a metal frame off the side of the tractor with the hose hanging from that and a "wand" attached to the hose. I would position the hose end by moving the wand. What I would like to avoid is stopping the tractor, sucking leaves, getting back on the tractor, move a couple of feet, repeat.

I had the same concern, and initially thought about trying to mount the pickup off the tractor somehow. Then I walked the ditch in question. It varies from a broad shallow shoulder just below the road to a sharp ditch 3 feet or more deep. In one spot it's several feet off the road. It looks like in the shallow area one would have to swing the pickup from side to side to collect everything.

Then I talked to the distributor who said small gravel that washes into the ditch would not be an issue, but golf-ball to fist size rocks can be picked up and they are. All that made me wonder if a remotely controlled pickup is really feasible. My current thinking is I'll entice my wife to drive the tractor as I walk along side with the pickup.

 

[Gittyup]

In reviewing the thread, I suspect it was my fault for Billy Goat being introduced. I can understand your desire to buy a "packaged" system, and I should have clarified that a leaf loader is definitely not the same thing. Having a number of years experience with my 8 hp Giant Vac with 7" hose, I avoid feeding it leaves directly. That's not to say I don't do it, but i have found it to be much more prone to clogging when collecting whole debris than that which has been shredded by the mower deck. It may be that my impeller is worn and not performing as well as it should. A leaf loader is designed to ingest "whole" debris. A vac intended to be used behind a mower may not be as effective.

I have also seen a number of complaints about ease of emptying the collection trailers. Nobody seems to make a non-commercial size vac like mine with a hopper discharge that gravity unloads very well. That's why when mine needs replacement I'll be going for more vac cfm and a similar hopper style trailer to what I have. The only way i'll get that is a build-it-myself.

Finally, I think avoiding "another engine to maintain", which I read on this site a lot, is much ado over nothing. One oil change per year and make sure it has fresh gas is pretty much all the two Briggs engines (leaf vac and log splitter) and Tecumseh (Ariens snowblower) get and they give me no trouble. Many others on this site complain about those brands, so results obviously vary.

The distinction between a leaf loader and a tractor vacuum is a very good point. Sounds like TerryR would benefit most from a leaf loader. Of course these are meant to be mounted to a truck bed and are not PTO driven. So, he'd have to build his own cart and live with the extra motor.

I suppose one could modify a leaf loader vacuum to reach down into a ditch while controlling some sort of boom-mounted hose from the tractor seat. I envision 1" steel tube frame, hinged in the middle for storage, with the hose attached. The end of the hose would have a wedge-shaped opening. Maybe a gauge wheel at the end too, or some sorta sled apparatus so that the hose could float just above the ground. The operator would have a handle to swing the hose, or just lock it into place perpendicular to the tractor. A kinda "offset vacuum" thing. But, that would require a lot of custom fab. There are shops that will make such gizmos for ya, if you have the basic workings and know what you want. That's what i would want if I had a lot of ditch to do. Otherwise, a helper to walk along side of the tractor would be needed. But, then I've operated one of the hoses by hand before (and still do). They still work you pretty hard, almost as much work as using a rake.

Used leaf loader listed here yesterday for $600. Put on the 3ph and hose it into my hydraulic dump trailer. Add the boom contraption. Pretty awesome set up, it would be.

 

[TerryR]

I suppose one could modify a leaf loader vacuum to reach down into a ditch while controlling some sort of boom-mounted hose from the tractor seat. I envision 1" steel tube frame, hinged in the middle for storage, with the hose attached. The end of the hose would have a wedge-shaped opening. Maybe a gauge wheel at the end too, or some sorta sled apparatus so that the hose could float just above the ground.

I don't see a wheel or sled type depth control working - the bottom of most of the ditch is very irregular. It's got a pretty good grade, and half of it is rip-rapped with 6 to 8" stone with lots of drop-offs around that size. I don't see a way to avoid manual depth control.

Terry

 

[CHDinCT]

I don't see a wheel or sled type depth control working - the bottom of most of the ditch is very irregular. It's got a pretty good grade, and half of it is rip-rapped with 6 to 8" stone with lots of drop-offs around that size. I don't see a way to avoid manual depth control.

Terry

I have numerous tree groves that make driving the tractor with leaf vac around in impractical. What i do is use a backpack blower to blow the leaves into a pretty large pile, then lay my 17' hose extension at the edge of the pile and use a rake to keep feeding the leaves into the suction tube which handles them as fast as I can feed it. Once I get to the point there's too little to rake into the tube, I then manually use the suction tube with shoulder strap to clean up what's left. I find this most efficient for large areas where I can't load the trailer vac via the mowing deck hook up.

 

[Gittyup]

I don't see a wheel or sled type depth control working - the bottom of most of the ditch is very irregular. It's got a pretty good grade, and half of it is rip-rapped with 6 to 8" stone with lots of drop-offs around that size. I don't see a way to avoid manual depth control.

Terry

I was suggesting something that would float on the ground, rising as needed on its own, or even raised by the operator on occasion. In the case of rip-rap, obviously a wheel wouldn't work, unless it could be set back far enough so as not to be in the rocks. But, I think a large, smooth trapazoid shaped "foot" might. It would have to be large enough and shaped so as to slide across the rocks and not hang up on them. Or, again kept back out of the rocks. Rip-rap is a tough problem, for sure. I have some of that and I'm sure glad I don't have to clean it out very often. Maybe a blower first would be what you'd need to get them out of the rocks first.

 

[TerryR]

Finally, I think avoiding "another engine to maintain", which I read on this site a lot, is much ado over nothing. One oil change per year and make sure it has fresh gas is pretty much all the two Briggs engines (leaf vac and log splitter) and Tecumseh (Ariens snowblower) get and they give me no trouble.

Jerry,

After thinking about this I find you have clarified the issue of getting "another engine" very well for me, though probably not in the way you might have expected.

As I said before, I've changed the oil once in the generator I've had for 10 years. It only runs maybe 5 hours most years, but no doubt should be changed a lot more often.

I've had a DR string trimmer on wheels for maybe 8 years, and I don't remember ever changing the oil in it. It probably runs 30 to 50 hrs. a year. I did change the air filter after I used it on a side-hill so steep the oil came up the crankcase vent and saturated the filter so badly it fouled the plug.

I bought a wood splitter a year and a half ago with a separate engine after failing to find a pto model and getting the drift that running one off the tractor hydraulics wasn't very satisfactory. Since it's only a little more than a year old the fact that its oil hasn't been changed doesn't really count.

My push lawn mower doesn't count since I've not used it in five years.

Clearly, the failure to spend an hour a year isn't rational. And I "get" that a lot of folks enjoy keeping their equipment in good shape. But some of us don't. Avoiding "another engine" isn't about avoiding that maintenance - we're not going to do it anyway. It's about not feeling guilty about failing to do it, and not having to worry about whether we either ran the fuel tank dry or added stabilizer to it. For us, the extra cost of a PTO unit (because you can't find them used, or make use of some of the other cost saving ideas raised in this thread) is well worth it.

Thanks again for helping me get clear on that.

Terry

 

[MJPetersen]

Terry,

Trust me you are not alone in that and you said it almost eloquently.

I have been following this because I am determined to have another way to clear the yard of the Fall debris before another Fall comes. I am thinking that vac would be just the thing, but am not sure how to do it yet.

Mike

 

[TerryR]

For those who were interested, or who may come across this thread, I'll post "the rest of the story."

I ended up buying the Trac Vac PTO unit with the "remote pickup" - a 12 ft. length of 6" hose with a handle that connects to the main 8" hose. I took delivery in the early winter and finally had a chance to give it a couple of fair trials the past couple of weeks.

Conclusions:

1. I'm very happy that I got the PTO unit after spending an hour trying to start the wood splitter thee weeks ago.

2. The idea of a floating remote pickup might work with a grassy ditch, but could not in my application with a ditch of varying cross-section and lots of stone in it, varying from gravel washed off the road to 6 to 8" rip-rap. This thing will pick up fist-sized stone with no trouble, but the blower doesn't like them at all. You really need to manage the end of it to get the leaves lodged in the stone without picking up the stones themselves. That means you really need to recruit a tractor driver because climbing on and off the tractor gets old fast.

3. The standard 12 ft. remote pickup attached to the 8 ft. of 8" hose may work for occasional use, but is far from ideal as the main way of working. The 8" hose is stiff, and the connector is a heavy steel thing that's a real pain to drag around. I'm working on getting a 20 ft. length of the smaller hose and mounting it directly on the blower.

4. Picking up leaves directly is probably a bit more problematic than using the unit with a mower deck. As advertised, it is not a shredder, and while the blower does some shredding if the leave are pretty dry, they are clearly not as fine as if picked up with a mower deck. As a result the bin fills more quickly. On the other hand, I was worried about clogging with twigs getting picked up with the leaves. That has not been much of an issue. Twigs that don't catch in the inlet don't seem to seldom clog the hose, and the few clogs I got seem easy to clear by straightening the hose and giving it a good flip.

5. I've found the unloading issue to be real. Unless you can face the trailer up hill, it doesn't raise far enough to dump well. I've not yet worked out a solution to that.

6. I find it mildly annoying that it's a category 0/1 three-point hitch. Even after building out the pins with as many washers as they would take I still have to adjust the arms in to fit it.

7. If you take delivery in January and decide to test it on piles of wet leaves frozen to the ditch, expect disappointment.

I find the unit well-built, and using it much less frustrating than trying to blow leaves up the bank, especially if there is any wind. But using it to clear ditches is still a goodly amount of work. The composted piles of leaves from my spring cleanup are looking very useful, and I'll have a lot more of them after this fall.

Terry

 

[lhfarm]

Thanks for the update and assessment. I have the same ditch setup, so I'll continue to use my hand and wheeled blower for another season.

I do hope you will post after you have tried the different hose configuration. I'd still like to be able to drive along the road and magically suck the leaves out the ditch.

 

[redharley]

Best way I have found to unload my trac-vac is with wide prong 4 prong fork,heat and bend each tine to 90 degree angle,if it doesn't have a long handle install one.Get 2 spring loaded clips at your local hardware store and attach to top of vac,these will hold your new unloading tool.

 

[SPYDERLK]

For those who were interested, or who may come across this thread, I'll post "the rest of the story."

I ended up buying the Trac Vac PTO unit with the "remote pickup" - a 12 ft. length of 6" hose with a handle that connects to the main 8" hose. I took delivery in the early winter and finally had a chance to give it a couple of fair trials the past couple of weeks.

Conclusions:

5. I've found the unloading issue to be real. Unless you can face the trailer up hill, it doesn't raise far enough to dump well. I've not yet worked out a solution to that.
Terry

Tip trailer back. Drive forward with a jerk.
larry

 

[TerryR]

Tip trailer back. Drive forward with a jerk.
larry

Yes, the "cling & jerk" approach helps, thanks. I find it also helps to rock the body up and down several times when I tip it back to get things started. Using the vac without a mower probably doesn't help as the leaves are not as finely ground (depending on how dry they are), and they don't get jiggled down as you drive around, so they aren't as well packed. As a result they spread out over two or three trailer lengths as I dump them, but I can fix that with my FEL.

Just got the added length of 6" hose and replaced the 8" section. Huge improvement! The 8" hose is much stiffer, not only because it's bigger but because it's of a stiffer construction. Worse, the steel 8" to 6" reducer likes to think of itself as a plow as you try to drag the hose around, catching on rocks or just digging into the gravel road. I moved it to mount directly on the fan housing, so the hose is now much easier to drag around. Having the quick-connect there makes it easy to remove the hose totally from the fan for storage.

I'd have preferred to have a single 20 to 24-ft section to avoid the possible clogging at the splice. But the manufacturer couldn't supply anything but the pre-cut lengths, so I got a second 12' section and a splice kit. I didn't have any luck finding it on the web, in part because there is no labeling on it so I don't know what it's actually called. Clearly some types of this hose are stiffer than others, and I wasn't anxious to end up with something too hard to use at the fairly substantial prices they want for this stuff.

I suppose using 6" all the way cuts down on air flow some, but I can't really tell the difference. This thing has a lot of suction. I've been trying to keep the twigs out of it, but I find that any that don't hang on the outside of the pickup tube seem to make it all the way for the most part.

One learning that's helping the on-and-off the tractor issue... I find that the wind fails to blow all the leaves into the ditch, so I need to go down the driveway with the backpack leaf blower to blow them in before I vac the ditch. If the leaves aren't too deep, I find it's easy to bunch them up with the backpack so there are fewer stops with the tractor and vac.

All in all, I rate the project a success - I find it takes much less time and gas, and it's much less frustrating, to use the vac then to try to blow the leaves up the 8 to 10-ft bank, which is thick with small trees and brush. Also, I don't need perfect wind conditions to be successful. And that big pile of leaves looks like good compost potential for next year.

 

[TerryR]

An update for anyone who happens on this old thread...

The piles of semi-shredded leaves make a great soil additive after 2 years in our climate - no doubt the time varies with the climate.

The use of two sections of pickup hose with a connector isn't the greatest. Using direct pickup, without a mower deck, puts lots of twigs in the pile and they tend to catch at the connector and cause clogs in the hose. Most can be cleared by pulling the hose straight and flipping it a bit, but sometimes they are more stubborn. I replaced the hose with a single 25' section of transparent hose, and that works much better. Not only does it eliminate a clog point at the mid-hose connector but when a clog does occur where the hose connects to the blower you can see it and know right were to attack it.

The unit has performed well over three, going on four, seasons. The only issues have been minor. A v-belt failed after three years, and was easily replaced at an auto parts store. One tire on the trailer went flat after two years. The tire shop found fussing with those little wheels a pain, but did it.

Covering the trailer with a tarp proved hard on the paint, as has been discussed here with regard to tractors in several threads. The dollies I described in another thread helped make storage of attachments in my equipment shed more efficient so I was able to move the trailer inside, which is obviously better.

In summary, a good purchase in my view.:thumbsup:

Terry

 

[Agent Blue]

Had the trailer model... Didn't like the way it moved around obstructions. I only use a vacuum in fall for the pine needles that blanket the lawn. I built this PTO version which works great and costs only 150.00 for parts. Why someone would spend thousands for the same result baffles me. A larger storage container would probably be the only improvement but it cuts the needles so fine they pack quite well. The containers are heavy but easily managed to dump in a trailer or waste area. A fun project with great results, well worth the time.

 

[SPYDERLK]

View attachment 284566

Had the trailer model... Didn't like the way it moved around obstructions. I only use a vacuum in fall for the pine needles that blanket the lawn. I built this PTO version which works great and costs only 150.00 for parts. Why someone would spend thousands for the same result baffles me. A larger storage container would probably be the only improvement but it cuts the needles so fine they pack quite well. The containers are heavy but easily managed to dump in a trailer or waste area. A fun project with great results, well worth the time.

Good job! $150 in parts says you were extremely lucky.
larry

 

[TerryR]

Why someone would spend thousands for the same result baffles me.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. It baffles me that anyone would spend hours collecting parts then building such a thing when they could buy one ready-made and spend that time on something enjoyable.

A fun project with great results, well worth the time.

That would be the difference. While you thought it was fun and worthwhile, I'd think it was neither.

BTW, I just spent 3 hours vacuuming the leaves from the ditch along my driveway, and filled the Trac-Vac cart once completely and about 3/4 the second time. Sure glad I wasn't using anything smaller.

Terry