PTO Problems

[Wayne County Hose]

Carl, are these connectors you are talking about quick disconnects? If so, they can cause problems when they do malfunction. I have seen them cause a restriction. Operate the mower a few minutes, then grab them to check temp. This is not a fool proof way to tell, but they will get warm if causing a serious restriction. I would also unplug them and look into them for anything not normal.

You mentioned that you changed hoses. One thing I harp on is cleanliness. Almost no hose shops out there clean hoses prior to or after assembly. Google "Ultra Clean Technologies." I use their system. If you cut a new piece of hyd hose off a reel and stick your finger inside it, you would cringe. When you install that hose, all that gank is cycling thru your system. When you do get a new hose, ask about their cleaning system. I almost guarantee you get a dumb look. Before you install a hose, blow it out with high pressure air, then squirt it good with brake clean, then air again, now install. It's quite possible you have debris in your pto solenoid. Remove it and operate the plunger with a small screwdriver, make sure it operates freely.

Bob is also correct. The nut on the coil is tightened to only a few inch pounds, just over finger tight. Energize the coil and while holding a screwdriver handle, drop the metal part on top of the solenoid. The magnetized coil should provide resistance when trying to remove the screwdriver. If no resistance, no solenoid activation.
Good luck, Andy.

 

[ponytug]

JJ-

Another gem! What are the fittings on the PTO? Do you know the sizes?

I'm assuming that you hook up a short piece of hose between the two fittings. My hoses are threaded through pipe that would entail removing the fittings to connect the two together.

All the best,

Peter

Carl,

You have a female end on one hose and a male fitting on the other. Just plug them together, and turn the PTO on. If the PTO is working, the engine will not bog down . If the motor on the implement is plugged or by-passing, it will do as you said. If your hoses are breaking down, It may be time to replace the hoses for the PTo circuit. Have you ever changed out the hydraulic fluid? Over time, It may become acidic, and deteriorate things.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Wow, do we need a real manual for the things....

Just got off the phone with Terry.

He feels something is up with the PTO Solonoid. He wants me to disconnect the mower and run the tractor and PTO on.

It turns out that the 1850 has a bypass system built in. This bypass system activates if the PTO is activated without anything hooked to it and the PTO switch is turned on.

The relief valves will dump into the tank. there is a heat issue that Terry spoke about, but no damage to the pump from backed up pressure.

Well, be back in 10 with the results.

Oh, JJ. I will try and take some pictures of the pump. It is quite burried on this version of the tractor. I am also getting (suposedly) a hydraulic schematic that I will scan and post. I will also scan parts of my manual that have the pumps and toys...

Carl

 

[J_J]

JJ-

Another gem! What are the fittings on the PTO? Do you know the sizes?

I'm assuming that you hook up a short piece of hose between the two fittings. My hoses are threaded through pipe that would entail removing the fittings to connect the two together.

All the best,

Peter

On mine, all my attachments plug into another quick disconnect located on the bottom front. Just get the same fittings, and a short hose and keep them coupled together until you have a use for them. I also keep the QD from the attachments connected together. Every now and then, heat will cause some difficulty in separating them.

I also have a lever to control the PTO speed. It gives me the ability for variable speed control.

Another thing, if you install a four way electric valve at the attaching point for your PTO, you can have reverse capability with a flip of a switch.

 

[DHS]

I had a similar problem couple years ago with my PTO solenoid. I believe the ignition switch, the wire to the switch, or the fuseholder would heat up and dropped the voltage to the PTO solenoid. When the switch got hot the lower voltage would only partially opened the solenoid. I bought a new solenoid from PT but that was not the problem. Rather than replace the switch, I installed a wire with a fuse from the battery post on the starter to the PTO switch. No more PTO solenoid problems. I intended to replace the switch but I have had no problems and it slips my mind.

Try powering the PTO solenoid directly from the battery. Best to use a wire with an inline fuse.

Dale

 

[J_J]

Fm. Carl, I don't know how to test this problem so I am looking for some advice on this one. Of course I missed Terry as it is now 2P.


Carl, you can make yourself a test device for your pumps. It consist of a short section of hose, and some QD's, 1/4 and 3/8. a 5000 psi gage, and a high pressure valve that you can turn up or down. This setup will plug in or attach to what ever you are testing. With an open ended pump, no motor hooked up, you would just plug the QD's into the PTO QD's. With the valve all the way open, and PTO switch on, you will have very little pressure. As you turn the valve down, you will notice the pressure build up and should build up to the advertised pressure for your system. It should build up and you might hear the relief valve operating, and you might see a small drop in pressure as the relief valve operates. If you have other fittings, you could test the pressure of the tram pump. Same with your lift cylinders. If you were really into switches and gages, you could install a pressure gage into each circuit so you can see, and test your system. Some people think that there is pressure there all the time, but pressure is only realized when work is being done such as turning a motor, or lifting a cylinder. So in essence, 0 pressure or low pressure is not necessarily a bad thing. it is just acting normal.

Just one more little bit of data from years past, When you use say 1/4 in hose, a lot of people will use 1/4 in QD's. I have heard this fact, and I believe it, that is to go one size higher on the QD's. This eliminate restriction that may exist. So if your hose is 1/4 in, use 1/2 QD's. The smallest orifice in the system is what limits the flow.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

J_J is right on with the q.d. sizing.

I just made up a pressure test kit for a local small engine shop who wanted to pressure test log splitters. Total cost was under $70. Consisted of:

5kpsi liquid filled gauge
-8 JIC street run Tee fitting
-8 to -6 reducers, need 2
-4 NPT female to -6 JIC female. Adapts from Tee fitting to gauge
-4 two wire hose, 2' long, -6 JIC female ends
You can add a high pressure valve like J_J said, small engine shop didn't need it.

You can change or add fittings to suit your needs. Most of the log splitters had -8 fittings. You could probably get away with -6 fittings and use reducers. Just make sure the hose max. psi is at least that of the gauge.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Could you guys post a picture of this illusive pressure tester. I get roughly what you are saying but there are some big words in there that I just want to make sure I understand...

Oh, and a very frustrating 2 days lost on the PTO. Basically, I took out the solenoid (twice) it seems to be working A-OK. (Ken, does yours make a real loud clunk or is it a quiet clunk). Voltage checked out OK

According to Eric (I think it was eric - FYI Terry had a kidney stone attack so condolencses to him. He came to work today (was in the hospital untiil midnite) I spoke to him at 9A his time and he sounded bad. Eric says he threw up shortly there after and went home).... Anyway, Eric. He listened over the phone and said it sounded right.

So, all I can think of is that I have some sort of obstruction. it would be very easy to check if I could just get my hoses off. But that has proven a majorly difficult task. But, I have enough confidence now to continue to pursue this issue.

Terry and Eric swear that my hose could not leave chunks but remember this picture? http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/power-trac/94001d1200717212-junk-trunk-pict0925.jpg so maybe there is junk somewhere in the hose or the block.

Well this filter is attached to the PTO pump (it goes to the charging circuit)

Anyway. Advice always taken....

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Terry and Eric swear that my hose could not leave chunks but remember this picture? http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/power-trac/94001d1200717212-junk-trunk-pict0925.jpg so maybe there is junk somewhere in the hose or the block.

Oh darn it, Terry and Eric shouldn't swear. Hoses can, and will, break down internally and cause problems, especially if they were run in higher than rated temps. Most 2 wire hose is rated for about 212 degrees. A little problem, and oil temps can easily exceed that. Is there cracking or brittleness in the outer hose cover? This is a sign of hose overtemp. Brittleness, is that a word? Or is that kind of like a jumbo shrimp?

 

[woodlandfarms]

The brittleness is so bad that when I straightened my driveline hoses to pull them through the outer shell cracked right off. You could hear everything creaking and groaning. The PTO hoses are no exception. Plan to replace them all once I can get this darn hose undone...