PTO, way too often is undervalued in a purchase

[flusher]

There are a few tractors that have PTOs that are selectable, the older Masseys in particular. You could choose between the tranny controlled PTO or live PTO.

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My 1966 MF-135 diesel (Deluxe model )does indeed have a selectable PTO. In one mode the PTO rpm is slaved to engine rpm. In the other mode the PTO rpm is determined by the ground speed of the tractor. My 135 has the two-stage clutch.

 

[FULLPULL]

On the 4000 when i broke in half it was between the rear end and the transmission I think i said bell housing.There were two shafts at the rear of the transmision. On one was for the hyraulic clutch pak the other was rear drive.The clutch pak was multi stage disk that is diven by the tractor hydraulic pump.The pump and pak was in its own section right behind the transmision.The reason for failure was bush hogging, the operator let the grass build up on the pto.It pulled the grass past the rear seal then past the pto shaft bearing causing a mix of grass and oil that stoped up the sump for the hydaulic pump.There was not enough hydraulic pressure to keep the clutch pak tight and then wore the disk and the pump failed .This tractor had a single disk clutch to run motion .As for the double clutch and heavy starting attachments .The bailer had a clutch pak on the fly wheel with a 4000 independent it seemed to kick in all at one time it stressed this clutch when starting the pto.The double clutch just inched it along starting the same bailer smoother with little stress on the clutch.This just seemed to be easy on equipment and i liked the double better.The bailer was sold because of its age and trouble with the clutch.

 

[Soundguy]

Did your 4000 not have a lever that you could 'feather' in ( was it an SOS model with a pull cable for the pto? ). My Ford and NH pto's that are independent are this way.

Soundguy

 

[FULLPULL]

On the 4000 it had a lever but didnt feather slowly to engage the pto.The new tc55 i have will feather some what.The 2 stage clutch is what i started with while baling hay and for our old 530 ford bailer it worked better for us.The 4000 even at a idle seemed to have a short pause then it engaged all the sudden sometimes slipping the flywheel clutch on the 530.This was our experiance with older equipment that matched in technology.As many hours we had in the field when you get a bailer in heavy hay or had it to stop up in the feed you liked the option of the 2 stage clutch .No reason other than we knew our equipment and ran according to the way to make it last for us.Now the technology has changed we can do in two days with one or two men what it took four or five men all week and not hardly break a sweat.

 

[Keith_B]

We've still go my late FIL's 4000 Ford on the farm, it mows and bales hay every year, it is also used for some hogging. It has the lever, but there is no feathering to it, as it is either on or not. We've experienced the same thing FULLPULL has, sometimes it engages really hard after a hesitation. Other times I have had to turn it off multiple times as I have found the PTO shaft running with no load on it and the PTO in the off position. We've not had any problem with it running like that under a load.

 

[Soundguy]

Pto off, and spinning, with no laod, on the tractors with ind pto can mean a couple things.

First.. if it is an SOS unit.. it's normal. they have no pto break.

2nd.. if the pto break is bad on the ind pto.. then it can fluid couple and spin.

3rd.. if the clutch discs are warped.. it can stay semi engaged even with no hyd pressure to engage clutch pack.

Also.. according to page 34 of the original owners manual, a partial engagement of the independent pto lever will allow the pto clutch to slip. I would agree though that the old style ind pto handle and in/out detents did not give you much range with which to make use of that slip.. vs the newer style on the X600 models that had a lever and significant travel path betweent he in and out detent.

Soundguy

 

[Keith_B]

Pto off, and spinning, with no laod, on the tractors with ind pto can mean a couple things.

Also.. according to page 34 of the original owners manual, a partial engagement of the independent pto lever will allow the pto clutch to slip. I would agree though that the old style ind pto handle and in/out detents did not give you much range with which to make use of that slip.. vs the newer style on the X600 models that had a lever and significant travel path betweent he in and out detent.

Soundguy

This 4000 is a '74 model with the 8F-2R tranny. I think the problem is that the limited range of the handle combines with the PTO wear to keep it turning. Usually you can turn it on and back off a couple of times and it will stop when this problem occurs. It doesn't happen each time the PTO is used.

 

[Soundguy]

Same pto as in my ford 5000, and slightly older version of the one in my 7610s.. the ford 8x2 / ind-pto tranny was a great invention..

I'd say there may be a valve issue.. or low hyd pressure to the clutch pack and break.

Soundguy

 

[schmism]

i got lost in all the varations ....

but hears what i DO know...

My NH 2001 TC33 hydro has one clutch. You push it in the Hydro stops and both PTO's will stop spinning (eventually).

The speed of either PTO's is directly porportional to engine RPM. There is no "range" on the PTO and it will not reverse.

 

[JC-jetro]

i got lost in all the varations ....


My NH 2001 TC33 hydro has one clutch. You push it in the Hydro stops and both PTO's will stop spinning (eventually).

That's is all I have been saying (repeating myself) along and this is the first confirmation. The only way to have PTO completely independent of transmission clutch/pedal look to me is when you have inner and outer shaft, with inner directly splined to crankshaft and outer splined to single clutch. In that scenario when you start not only you rotate the flywheel you also turn coupled shaft. The inner shaft has to have a clutch pack at the differential housing to engage or disengage the PTO shaft. Has anyone seen that?