Pulling permits - looking for trouble?

[beenthere]

Just (as others have said) do the work to code. Beg for forgiveness if 'caught' without a permit, but be sure the work is code. Work that has been done in your home that you know is not up to code, may only have an impact on you if the house burns and the insurance doesn't pay because they found something not up to code (like the wiring). No personal experience, other than being told that my original wiring for my well was not up to code (I didn't wire it) because both hot wires of the 220V supply were not switched in the pressure switch. One hot wire went directly to the pump, and one was switched. Not code, but now are switched to meet code.
So I think it is in your own best interest to look into what is not code.

 

[beenthere]

Just (as others have said) do the work to code. Beg for forgiveness if 'caught' without a permit, but be sure the work is code. Work that has been done in your home that you know is not up to code, may only have an impact on you if the house burns and the insurance doesn't pay because they found something not up to code (like the wiring). No personal experience, other than being told that my original wiring for my well was not up to code (I didn't wire it) because both hot wires of the 220V supply were not switched in the pressure switch. One hot wire went directly to the pump, and one was switched. Not code, but now are switched to meet code.
So I think it is in your own best interest to look into what is not code.

 

[MrJimi]

NOTE!! I am NOT a building inspector. I have used the wonderful people lots of times and they are there to make sure that your project is done correctly and safe. My inspector likes me because I always do everything to code and above, they like that.
Think about this, you would not want something unsafe? would you?
Jim /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[MrJimi]

NOTE!! I am NOT a building inspector. I have used the wonderful people lots of times and they are there to make sure that your project is done correctly and safe. My inspector likes me because I always do everything to code and above, they like that.
Think about this, you would not want something unsafe? would you?
Jim /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[JoeR]

I always believe that inviting the government in, is in itself trouble. I agree with everyone that you should do it right. I have seen more contractors cut corners to save money than homeowners. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Joe

 

[JoeR]

I always believe that inviting the government in, is in itself trouble. I agree with everyone that you should do it right. I have seen more contractors cut corners to save money than homeowners. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Joe

 

[CurlyDave]

When I built my house, I had permits and did everything well above code.

What I found was that a building inspector will help you out a lot if you are nice to him.

The big advantage of building with permits is that when it comes time to sell, you will get top dollar and not have any legal problems.

In my case, at least, once I got on the inspector's good side by doing everything he wanted the first two visits, he became a great asset, not confrontational at all. After about 4 visits, he wouldn't even get out of his car. I would meet him in the driveway, wave at the new work, and he would sign the inspection form. I had to ask him to get out & look at something if I had a question on what to do next.

I bet that an inspector will want you to correct any safety issues on the old work, which you should do anyway, but will let a lot of existing stuff go.

When we were looking for our property we found a place we liked enough to make an offer on.

Just walking through, I could see a double handful of code violations, and as part of the offer, wanted the worst of them fixed. The seller didn't want to do anything, he was going to Central America as a missionary, and sold to someone else. He claimed that in OR, once something has existed for 5 years, it is "grandfathered" and does not need inspections.

Well, the new buyer wasn't really capable of doing all the repairs & upgrades necessary, and sued the seller within weeks of closing. Now the guy is in Guatemala and having to defend a lawsuit. I don't know what that is costing him, but he would have been far better off to fix the stuff first and then sell. Instead of being able to fix the stuff himself, he is going to end up paying lawyers, paying contractors, and probably paying the buyer's lawyers.

When you really think about it, the purpose of requiring building permits is two-fold.

1. Insure safety, and

2. Increase the tax base. (This is by far the more important to the city.)

Since you are doing the work yourself, you can give a real lowball estimate of the cost and your taxes will not go up that much.

 

[CurlyDave]

When I built my house, I had permits and did everything well above code.

What I found was that a building inspector will help you out a lot if you are nice to him.

The big advantage of building with permits is that when it comes time to sell, you will get top dollar and not have any legal problems.

In my case, at least, once I got on the inspector's good side by doing everything he wanted the first two visits, he became a great asset, not confrontational at all. After about 4 visits, he wouldn't even get out of his car. I would meet him in the driveway, wave at the new work, and he would sign the inspection form. I had to ask him to get out & look at something if I had a question on what to do next.

I bet that an inspector will want you to correct any safety issues on the old work, which you should do anyway, but will let a lot of existing stuff go.

When we were looking for our property we found a place we liked enough to make an offer on.

Just walking through, I could see a double handful of code violations, and as part of the offer, wanted the worst of them fixed. The seller didn't want to do anything, he was going to Central America as a missionary, and sold to someone else. He claimed that in OR, once something has existed for 5 years, it is "grandfathered" and does not need inspections.

Well, the new buyer wasn't really capable of doing all the repairs & upgrades necessary, and sued the seller within weeks of closing. Now the guy is in Guatemala and having to defend a lawsuit. I don't know what that is costing him, but he would have been far better off to fix the stuff first and then sell. Instead of being able to fix the stuff himself, he is going to end up paying lawyers, paying contractors, and probably paying the buyer's lawyers.

When you really think about it, the purpose of requiring building permits is two-fold.

1. Insure safety, and

2. Increase the tax base. (This is by far the more important to the city.)

Since you are doing the work yourself, you can give a real lowball estimate of the cost and your taxes will not go up that much.

 

[rozett]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( so when you call an inspector in for a permit, does s/he have free reign to make you fix anything s/he wants before signing off? Will they be snooping around looking for other things? or do they generally stay focused on what you called them in for? )</font>

The only way to really answer that is for you to get a copy of your local Zoning Ordinance and check it out. In our town, the Code Enforcement Officer, can cite any violation that (s)he sees, even if it is not the subject of the permit. The CEO is generally, not 'snooping around' looking for violations, but if they looked at your panel and saw something (like the generator hookup) that was not to code, they are required to cite it.

Here is the relevent section of our town Zoning Ordinance....
<font color="brown"> It shall be the duty of the Code Enforcement Officer to enforce the provisions of this ordinance. If the Code Enforcement Officer shall find that any provision of this ordinance is being violated, he shall notify, in writing, the person responsible for such violations, indicating the nature of the violations and ordering the action necessary to correct it. He shall order the removal of illegal buildings, structures, additions or work being done, or shall take any other action authorized by this ordinance to insure compliance with , or to prevent violation of, its provisions. </font>

 

[rozett]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( so when you call an inspector in for a permit, does s/he have free reign to make you fix anything s/he wants before signing off? Will they be snooping around looking for other things? or do they generally stay focused on what you called them in for? )</font>

The only way to really answer that is for you to get a copy of your local Zoning Ordinance and check it out. In our town, the Code Enforcement Officer, can cite any violation that (s)he sees, even if it is not the subject of the permit. The CEO is generally, not 'snooping around' looking for violations, but if they looked at your panel and saw something (like the generator hookup) that was not to code, they are required to cite it.

Here is the relevent section of our town Zoning Ordinance....
<font color="brown"> It shall be the duty of the Code Enforcement Officer to enforce the provisions of this ordinance. If the Code Enforcement Officer shall find that any provision of this ordinance is being violated, he shall notify, in writing, the person responsible for such violations, indicating the nature of the violations and ordering the action necessary to correct it. He shall order the removal of illegal buildings, structures, additions or work being done, or shall take any other action authorized by this ordinance to insure compliance with , or to prevent violation of, its provisions. </font>

 

[greatrandini]

My opinion is that you should call an electrician and make it all safe. Code smode but safty is important. Some codes make sense some don't but a qualified electrician will at least know what is safe.........

 

[greatrandini]

My opinion is that you should call an electrician and make it all safe. Code smode but safty is important. Some codes make sense some don't but a qualified electrician will at least know what is safe.........

 

[hockeyhead]

first off make your electric system safe to excepted industry standards,
secondly I've done work as a homeowner both with and without permits to and beyond industry standards, getting caught without a permit resulted in me pulling a permit at double the cost.
I've never had a problem with an inspector, but
When I lived in a subdivsion now a lifetime ago I had a second garage built by a contractor, 40ft behind my existing attatched garage
getting this approve was time consuming but thats another story
this job included a lot of concrete work including replacing the rear porch, old porch removed for driveway extension
we had an inspection after the concrete was done, per the permit
contractor builds garage
inspection after garage built, per the permit
I did the electrical installlation complete, from house, and wired the garage
inspector came out for electric, look it over, was happly, except, I had a 30A 220 breaker in the box in the garage without anything hooked up, I told him about my new compressor coming, and that would it be hard wired
he told me to hookup a dryer outlet and call him again
I never did, got my compressor, wired it up, filled in the trench
and lived happly for 4 years until I went to sell the house, house sold quick and I needed a city inspection before the sale can be final, and I have a open electrical permit without a final inspection on my garage/shop so I think they will make me dig up the trench worst case.
city inspection day comes I take 1/2 day off, fearing the worst
check plumbing, electrical, everything, home passes with flying colors except, my new (4 year old) contractor built, city inspected, rear porch!
the 2 steps are taller than 9"
so this porch that was approved in '94
was rejected in '98
I never heard a word about the open electric permit

 

[hockeyhead]

first off make your electric system safe to excepted industry standards,
secondly I've done work as a homeowner both with and without permits to and beyond industry standards, getting caught without a permit resulted in me pulling a permit at double the cost.
I've never had a problem with an inspector, but
When I lived in a subdivsion now a lifetime ago I had a second garage built by a contractor, 40ft behind my existing attatched garage
getting this approve was time consuming but thats another story
this job included a lot of concrete work including replacing the rear porch, old porch removed for driveway extension
we had an inspection after the concrete was done, per the permit
contractor builds garage
inspection after garage built, per the permit
I did the electrical installlation complete, from house, and wired the garage
inspector came out for electric, look it over, was happly, except, I had a 30A 220 breaker in the box in the garage without anything hooked up, I told him about my new compressor coming, and that would it be hard wired
he told me to hookup a dryer outlet and call him again
I never did, got my compressor, wired it up, filled in the trench
and lived happly for 4 years until I went to sell the house, house sold quick and I needed a city inspection before the sale can be final, and I have a open electrical permit without a final inspection on my garage/shop so I think they will make me dig up the trench worst case.
city inspection day comes I take 1/2 day off, fearing the worst
check plumbing, electrical, everything, home passes with flying colors except, my new (4 year old) contractor built, city inspected, rear porch!
the 2 steps are taller than 9"
so this porch that was approved in '94
was rejected in '98
I never heard a word about the open electric permit

 

[majik]

It has been my experience that the inspectors don't always know what their looking at. Example:an ex employeer of mine built a commercial complex seems that some of the steel beams and trusses had gaps where they were bolted together he made us weld those joints. This was on the first building put up. When he wanted this done on the other two buildings put up , we went to the building engineer about this as it turned out these were expansion joints for the structure and by welding them solid per the inspectors request it created the possiability of structural failure...in a big way. Now this is not saying not to do any work that is not in compliance with the nec,umc,or nfpa...but be very careful about doing whatever the local inspector wants, it might get you dead. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

[majik]

It has been my experience that the inspectors don't always know what their looking at. Example:an ex employeer of mine built a commercial complex seems that some of the steel beams and trusses had gaps where they were bolted together he made us weld those joints. This was on the first building put up. When he wanted this done on the other two buildings put up , we went to the building engineer about this as it turned out these were expansion joints for the structure and by welding them solid per the inspectors request it created the possiability of structural failure...in a big way. Now this is not saying not to do any work that is not in compliance with the nec,umc,or nfpa...but be very careful about doing whatever the local inspector wants, it might get you dead. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

[Inspector507]

Dargo,
I'm not exactly replying to you but there is no way to post a reply without associating it to a reply from someone else. But you are correct though the code is a minimum standard.

But sometimes this place cracks me up /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Inspector507]

Dargo,
I'm not exactly replying to you but there is no way to post a reply without associating it to a reply from someone else. But you are correct though the code is a minimum standard.

But sometimes this place cracks me up /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[ejb]

Thanks for all the input folks...chewed on it for a while and decide to pull an electrical permit and a gas/plumbing permit and if it means I need to end up fixing things I didn't want to...so be it. I might forgoe the building permit just because there really isn't any "building" going on...mostly new cabinets, new plumbing/wiring etc...technically I should probably get one, but of the three I should pull, this is the least of my worries.

No plans on selling the place, but you just never know what life will throw at you, so it'll be one less thing to worry about. My guess is that in my small town, the inspector will be fairly reasonable to deal with - probably just my fear of the unknown. - I'll let you all know how it plays out.

 

[ejb]

Thanks for all the input folks...chewed on it for a while and decide to pull an electrical permit and a gas/plumbing permit and if it means I need to end up fixing things I didn't want to...so be it. I might forgoe the building permit just because there really isn't any "building" going on...mostly new cabinets, new plumbing/wiring etc...technically I should probably get one, but of the three I should pull, this is the least of my worries.

No plans on selling the place, but you just never know what life will throw at you, so it'll be one less thing to worry about. My guess is that in my small town, the inspector will be fairly reasonable to deal with - probably just my fear of the unknown. - I'll let you all know how it plays out.