Pulling power: Tractor vs. Truck

[jymbee]

Have to cut down a pretty large hard maple tree. Given I want to control the direction of fall I'm going to tie on a heavy bull rope to make it go the way I want. Options for the pulling are a full size diesel GMC 4WD pickup with oversize tires or a class IV tractor w/ 52 HP and new ag tires.

Cut a lot of trees this way using a 4WD Dodge power wagon in the past but now that the tractor is an option I'm wondering which actually has the most pulling power. Obviously the pickup has more HP but the tractor has much better tires and probably more "torque". (?)

The advantage that the truck has is that once the tree starts to come, you can accelerate more quickly to make sure it doesn't sway back. The tractor would be slower but maybe not that much of a factor?

Friend suggested I have a tug-of-war between the two to pick a winner. Not too keen on that idea thinking it would be easier just to ask for opinions here...

 

[Sysop]

Whichever can build the best traction in the soil conditions of your worksite will do the best job. Obviously the new AG tires will bite the earth really well, but if the tractor is a lightweight model and your full size GMC is loaded down with a work bed and tools and whatnot and weighs twice as much, it might make better traction than the tractor with good tires on it. It's really a toss up without knowing more data. Perhaps your friend is right, a nice tug of war at the worksite is in order to test which can get better traction. The traction of either should be "the weak link" so if anything breaks other than traction it was going to break pretty soon anyway... Make sure you youtube it and share with us!!!

 

[milkman636]

Since you asked on a tractor site I feel an obligation to vote for using the tractor. If the rope is long enough you shouldn't have to speed away, the tractor will provide a consistent pull in the right direction.

 

[jymbee]

Ah, right. Should have mentioned that important factor. I'd be pulling from grass sod.

The tractor is pretty new and I'm just beginning to appreciate how much that little sucker can pull. Skidded out some large hard maple trees the other day-- up a fairly steep grassy hill with no strain at all. Didn't even need to use 4WD. After that was when I started wondering whether it might be up a better choice for this tree job.

Whichever can build the best traction in the soil conditions of your worksite will do the best job. Obviously the new AG tires will bite the earth really well, but if the tractor is a lightweight model and your full size GMC is loaded down with a work bed and tools and whatnot and weighs twice as much, it might make better traction than the tractor with good tires on it. It's really a toss up without knowing more data. Perhaps your friend is right, a nice tug of war at the worksite is in order to test which can get better traction. The traction of either should be "the weak link" so if anything breaks other than traction it was going to break pretty soon anyway... Make sure you youtube it and share with us!!!

 

[trook]

I vote for the tug-of-war!!

Seriously though, I really don't know. I have often wondered this same question myself. On pavement, I would vote for the truck. On grass, I would have to vote for the tractor with ag tires unless the truck is much heavier. If the truck is much heavier and the ground is dry/hard, then I would vote for the truck. Let us know what happens...

 

[dave1949]

I would use whichever is best insured. :laughing:

 

[CalG]

What is "sway back" if you are applying steady tension?

I use the tractor First gear, low range.

Put on the block cut, then pull tension on the tree (I use 1/2 wire rope on a pully so the tractor is NOT in the fall direction, Nice that we have so many trees around to tie to)

With the tree pulled the way the cut is directed, The felling cut is made. Once the tractor pulls the tree across the hinge, gravity does it all ;-) There is no "sway back".

Nice thing about the "assisted felling", is that the hinge can be left nice and thick.

Last year I pulled over a 115" tall maple that was less than 20 feet from the house. The tractor was driven into the lower shop level as it pulled tension with the wire rope turning the corner on the pully.

Worked well ;-)

 

[Sysop]

Ah, right. Should have mentioned that important factor. I'd be pulling from grass sod.

Those AGs on that "little" 50HP tractor would jerk your truck around like a ragdoll without having something similarly aggressive mounted on it. Power is out of the equation when it cannot be applied. Less chance of an "accidental spin" causing extra sod damage with the AGs as well.

 

[user.69169]

Ain't a matter of power or speed. It's a matter of weight.

Once that tree gets into motion it'going to gain speed, and chances of you keeping the towline tight pretty dang small. You lost all control of the load as soon as the load slacks the tow line. Gravity going to run the show from then on.

 

[Sysop]

Ain't a matter of power or speed. It's a matter of weight.

Once that tree gets into motion it'going to gain speed, and chances of you keeping the towline tight pretty dang small. You lost all control of the load as soon as the load slacks the tow line. Gravity going to run the show from then on.

Exactly why any force you want to put on it to start it in the right direction needs the traction to do so.

 

[TomSeller]

Without a picture it is hard to say how much pretension to apply. If the tree is already leaning I would not pretension very much, it could be dangerous to the person on the saw. Is there a lean?

 

[JimRB]

Years ago I worked for a tree service for a few months. The tree surgeon would tie off a 200 foot 1" rope, or maybe it was a 3/4" rope to the towards the top of the tree. Rope longer than tree by a good bit. The other end was tied to the back of a 2 wd, dualie Chevy 30 series with a dump bed. He would tension the tree the direction he wanted. On tricky stuff he might use two lines pulling the same general direction but the trucks were 50 - 100 feet apart. Truck were parked. Note that one of those trucks probably weigh less than 4 tons. Think about how much your tractor weighs versus your truck and how much traction they have when parked. Trying to accelerate a vehicle to pull something over means you did not plan out the cut properly. You do not have to drop the whole tree in one piece. Some people limb the tree on one side to preload in the desired direction.

A tree service tried to drop a tree in someone's back yard using a small crane truck in the front yard. Those crane trucks are fairly heavy for a light duty truck heading towards 20k. Yes they overloaded the boom when dropping sections. The truck tilted over with the boom splitting the house. You got to know your physics. Personally I have ignored my little bit of physics knowledge and accidentally dropped trees where they did not belong. Luckily no damage to anything. Well technically it was no an accident as I was the cause and effect.

 

[john40981]

I would go with the Tractor as slow pulling power is what they are made for. Set up for your cut properly, tension the tree in the desired direction with a long enough rope or cable and you should be fine.

 

[coobie]

It,s all about height of the rope in the tree.I used to be a tree trimmer some years back for our local power company.The higher you can get that rope in the tree the better,more leverage.Leave plenty of rope to get clear of the tree when it falls.I would use the tractor.

 

[Ken45101]

The truck would be a little safer as the cab will provide a little protection if the rope snaps.

Bottom line, I agree with the tractor but be careful about how much pull you put on the line. A breaking line can be lethal. You really should not need so much pulling power that you have to worry about which one to use. If you are in that situation, then I would really be concerned about the strength of the line.

 

[CobyRupert]

Note: With one end of the rope high in the tree, you're lifting weight off the back tires, and eventually relying on the traction of the front tires. A loaded truck bed my be heavier (?), but tractors have the traction and the torque. Tractor.

 

[LD1]

Do you have a loader and loaded tires on that massey 52HP?? IF not, the truck will out weigh it by almost double.

The tractor does have better traction, but the added weight of the truck, unless you are in mud, it would be close.

IMO, if one can do it, the other can. If one cant, the other likely cannot. It is a toss up.

That said, I would opt for the truck. The added speed with the push of the pedal to keep the towline tight through out the fall is what I would want. I have seen trees start to go in the direction intended, and then either twist, or hang up on something and go off course. The tractor wont be fast enough to keep the line tight.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Do you have a loader and loaded tires on that massey 52HP?? IF not, the truck will out weigh it by almost double.

The tractor does have better traction, but the added weight of the truck, unless you are in mud, it would be close.

... This ^. On virtually any firm surface the truck will pull harder.

 

[Egon]

Use whichever one is handiest. Both are very adequate for the job. All you need is a little pretension to start the fall. No need to try and drive away with the falling tree.

 

[Egbert]

This one my change the equation a bit.

Crazy Turbo Charged Tractor - YouTube