Backhoe Pulling using backhoe or loader hooks--bad idea?

AndyH · May 20, 2004

I'm in the process of transplanting some pretty massive shrubs using my small Ford 1220. With the large (5+' diameter) rootballs attached, they exceed my loader's modest lift capacity (only 600 lbs), so I'm dragging them instead, using a rock sled.

The problem is that with my backhoe attached, there's no way to access the hitch which I've always pulled the sled from in the past. On the first shrub, I used the backhoe's power to pull the rock sled, with a chain wrapped around the bucket. It's a slow process, however, since I can only pull a few feet at a time; then I have to move the tractor and reset the backhoe, then pull another few feet. It ultimately works, but it takes forever.

Two alternatives come to mind: (1) attach the chain from the rock sled to the backhoe bucket in the stored position, then drive slowly to drag the sled; or (2) attach the chain to loader hooks (which I'm currently adding), and pull the sled in reverse.

My concerns with the first alternative are about stability: the backhoe bucket is higher than the hitch, and the subframe mounted backhoe already puts a lot of weight to the rear. Pulling from the loader hooks would probably solve the stability issues, but I'm curious whether a loader is really designed to take a heavy strain pulling away from the tractor. I'm no engineer, but wonder if loaders aren't meant to take compressive (?) strains rather than tension ones.

Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.

rambler · May 20, 2004

The problem for the loader is corners - the bucket doesn't like an angled strain on it.

The problem for both is the temptation (or lack of attention) to pull with the hook too high & turning the tractor over.

Is the drawbar still on the tractor & can you get to it with the chain? It's best to pull from the drawbar. Many of us do otherwise & get away with it, but it's hard to advise doing something that has the potential to go wrong.

--->Paul

AndyH · May 20, 2004

Paul:

Unfortunately, the backhoe completely blocks access to the drawbar. (That's where I normally pull from.)

When you mentioned the problem with "corners", I assumed you meant the concern about stresses out on the corners of the loader from pulling with a hook on just one side; I'd try to avoid that by pulling from hooks on both sides (probably using a short length of chain attached to each corner, with the long chain from the rock sled linked to the center of the short chain). My more general worry was whether the bucket, as well as the loader arms and mounting brackets, are designed to withstand a substantial pull from the front.

Thanks for the input.

Andy

JerryG · May 20, 2004

Andy,
Can you put the chain around the backhoe frame below and behind the swing?

SPIKER · May 20, 2004

Jerry said it first, about using the chain around the backhoe sub frame, run it under the backhoe in the center of the frame and then to the sled. What was mentioned above about the corners is when turning the tractor the bucket wants to sweep sideways and will put sideways stress on the loader arms this is not good. the bracktry SHOULD be able to withstand as much force forwards as in revers. on the loader though. I would suggest the chain around the tractor HOE subframe. even if the chain is almost on the ground...

Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

uhmgawa · May 20, 2004

( Two alternatives come to mind: (1) attach the chain from the rock sled to the backhoe bucket in the stored position, then drive slowly to drag the sled)

I've seen BH bucket cylinder rods snapped in two as well as bent into a 'U'
by applying the torque of a tractor to the BH arm. The components of the
arm were designed to endure the stress applied via the hydraulic cylinders.
Applying the torque of the tractor to such can easily exceed the design limits.

( or (2) attach the chain to loader hooks (which I'm currently adding), and pull the sled in reverse.)

Same applies here though there is a safe(r) way to pull with the loader bucket
by rotating the bucket back until it hits the mechanical stop. Thread the chain
under and up to the back of the bucket such that the tractor torque when
pulling causes the bucket to rotate into its mechanical stop rather than apply
load to the cylinders.

( Pulling from the loader hooks would probably solve the stability issues, but I'm curious whether a loader is really designed to take a heavy strain pulling away from the tractor. I'm no engineer, but wonder if loaders aren't meant to take compressive (?) strains rather than tension ones.)

A properly designed loader frame will be designed to assume the full torque of
the tractor can be applied normal to the frame in either direction. However
point/unbalanced loads which tend to rack the loader frame will show how
much margin was given to the design.

mahlers · May 20, 2004

Do you have a truck with a tow hitch that could get close enough to attach to the rock sled? If so, you could use a tow hook in the receiver hitch and probably drag the shrubs around. If it's possible to get in there, it sure would be safer and easier than messing with the backhoe or loader.

teadave · May 20, 2004

what about slipping a hook on the lip of your bucket, and running a chain UNDER your tractor? the forces are correct on the loader,and your won't flip the tractor over. you could even run the chain thru a loop of chain around the sub-frame so you wouldn't lose your turning radius(running over chain)
teadave

grandad · May 20, 2004

I've used the BH subframe also... not as good as a drawbar, but it's way better than using the BH bucket or the loader. The backhoe makes the tractor back heavy and the load is attached quite a bit further away from the axle so you have to be slow and careful, but it does work.

However, if it's a 3pt type backhoe, this may not be such a good idea.

rambler · May 21, 2004

( Paul:

Unfortunately, the backhoe completely blocks access to the drawbar. (That's where I normally pull from.)

When you mentioned the problem with "corners", I assumed you meant the concern about stresses out on the corners of the loader from pulling with a hook on just one side; I'd try to avoid that by pulling from hooks on both sides (probably using a short length of chain attached to each corner, with the long chain from the rock sled linked to the center of the short chain). My more general worry was whether the bucket, as well as the loader arms and mounting brackets, are designed to withstand a substantial pull from the front.

Thanks for the input.

Andy )

As others suggest, I was getting at hooking up to something solid, substantial, & low down on the back of the tractor. Is there nothing there to throw a chain around? Would be way better than stressing the bh by hooking onto the bucket in the up position!

Also, I meant if you are backing up in a circle, or driving in a corner, that you would be pulling the loader into a pretzel. Some loaders can take this stress better than others....

--->Paul