Pump recommendation from river

[bcarwell]

I need to pump from a river up an embankment to water my cows. I'm guessing its maybe 150-200 feet vertical and maybe a 45 degree angle. I don't need a big flow- maybe 150-200 gallons over night to fill a water stock tank. The river is only about 3 feet deep. I'm thinking a deep well pump is what I need to overcome the lift/head as most readily available reasonably priced sprinkler head pumps seem to be good for only 100 feet or so. But with a shallow river it seems I need some sort of well pump that will work horizontally. Does anybody have any suggestions- pump, size, manufacturer, etc ?

 

[PGBiodiesel]

I was thinking deepwell pump also.

Can you anchor some kind of sump(barrel) down into the riverbed to get more depth and filter out debris and sand/dirt.

With the small volume the pump needed should be small and easily covered by the water and stay cool.

Float switch in the tank and good to go.

Goodluck

 

[bcarwell]

Thanks for the reply. Actually I was hoping there was some way to use a horizontal pump. The river bed is mostly limestone rock. But a friend did say I could sandbag a circle, use a sump pump to evacuate water, and then jackhammer down 3 or 4 feet and install the pump down in it with a well point filter. But obviously a horizontal pump would be easier. I just don't know if they make them. Anybody know of horizontal well pumps ?

 

[vwnotrunning]

If you start it initially with little to no discharge pipe to get the air out of the pump a submersible pump will work. The problem will be the life will be shortened since the bearings are designed for vertical loading.

 

[boggen]

i am out of my area, on sizing pumps for the vertical distance you need to lift water up to.

goto any run of the mill local pool place. and they should have pumps in stock and be able to state size of pump you need.

but i am going to assume, a pool pump or maybe a jet pump for a spa would work for you.

also perhaps a gas engine water pump might work as well.

well pumps also

many many different options you can choose from. the one thing you need to remember though, you need to get yourself a large enough pump. so it does not constantly run all day long. and if you do not go with a gas engine water pump, but a regular water pump (pool, spa, well pump) i would advise installing a "bladder tank" including a pressure on/off switch and of course a "auto fill valve" inside the water tank for cattle. this will give you pretty much hands free operation of constantly keeping the water tank for cattle full of water.

just remember though cattle are very abusive to tanks, they will rub on it, stand on it. try and tip it over. and do same thing to the auto fill valve within it. and in that, you may want to drive some posts or like around the tank and chain it down. and then put a metal guard over the auto fill tank.

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if you will there a couple times a day to physical check on them. then it might be a different story were a gas engine water pump. or flipping a switch to turn on a pump. and not needing to chain down a water tank for cattle is not needed.

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as far as making sure end of suction hose does not get plugged up. pretty much same for all pumps. exception submersible pump. if you go with a submersible pump. then highly advise a "trash pump" that can handle say 2" solids. so the pump does not get plugged up. but even then i would caution you away from a submersible pump.

rivers more so when there is a heavy rain. can get tons of sticks, rocks, and other things going down them. and because of this. i would highly advise, digging a small trench from the river into bank. and then digging down. for say a 55 gallon drum to be installed. were you can place a foot valve or screen mesh with a check valve in.

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there has been i want to say 3 other folks, i want to say in last month, like what you are wanting to do, in last couple weeks here on TBN. i think all the threads were in the "projects" forum. it might be worth searching for, to get other ideas and info.

 

[boggen]

almost forgot. if this is a remote location with no power. you can get a windmill water pump. and when there is wind it will pump water.

i want to say "geyser water pump" it is an air lift water pump. that could also work. i do not remember the companies website right off. but should be an easy google search to find. if you go this route. a regular windmill that pumps air could work. or a piston drive air pump ((diaphragm air pumps is a very bad costly long term deal for these)) a regular air compressor, i would most likely stay away from. air compressors are normally not ment to run non stop, and if you allow the air compressors to over heat. you can quickly ruin them.

 

[mmurphy]

Pumps And Tanks Forums! Look this site over. If this is a temporary hook up, you could always run 2 cheaper 100' head pumps in series. You can find multiple stage pumps designed in one. Really depends on usage, and costs that you would like to keep in. This site has pump salesmen involved that probably all ready has hooked several scenarios.

 

[tommu56]

Most manufactures pumps can be run sideways but you have to add a cooling shroud on the grundfos pumps to keep the flow over the motor to keep it cool.
I am considering putting one in my cistern to prevent the pump from freezing in the winter.

The thrust on the bearings is most likely end to end from the thrust of pushing the water out the outlet the reaction would be in the other direction

tom

 

[DJ54]

Back in the late 70's, and early 80's Dad irrigated his large garden from a creek approx. 500' away. A 3/4 h.p. jet pump sat on the creek bank, which pumped water to a 1/2 hp pump in my old shop, which acted as a booster to feed 6 large golf course style sprinklers.

Being it was pushing the water, and not drafting sure made a difference, and not like building pressure in a tank. And this was at an approx. 80' vertical rise. Problem for you is running power that far. He picked up enough used wire, and the pumps at auctions for this purpose, so cost was minimal...

If this is a long term situation, you may try doing a search for a "water ram". Rather pricey, but require no electricity. Once the lines are full, it will pump I believe 10% of water used to run the ram.

A stream of water the size of a lead pencil, will produce close to 500 gallons in 24 hours, according to an old fellow I used to work with.

 

[pycoed]

Sounds like you need a hydraulic ram pump. They are quite common here in Wales & throughout the UK for private water supplies. Some have worked for over 100 years! Only a clack valve moves so they are VERY low on maintenance.

Have a look at the following webpage :-
Green and Carter - Hydraulic Ram Pump inventors and patentees. Manufacturers of Hydraulic rams, hydram, water powered pumps, vulcan ram, blake ram, easton ram and vacher ram.

Lots of info available for home made ram pumps too

 

[MNBobcat]

Have you thought about the chemicals and crud in the water that you might be passing on to the cows?

 

[leonz]

I need to pump from a river up an embankment to water my cows. I'm guessing its maybe 150-200 feet vertical and maybe a 45 degree angle. I don't need a big flow- maybe 150-200 gallons over night to fill a water stock tank. The river is only about 3 feet deep. I'm thinking a deep well pump is what I need to overcome the lift/head as most readily available reasonably priced sprinkler head pumps seem to be good for only 100 feet or so. But with a shallow river it seems I need some sort of well pump that will work horizontally. Does anybody have any suggestions- pump, size, manufacturer, etc ?

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Hello Farmer Bob,

As you have no power at the site a ram pump will work but the issue is the feed water distance to the Ram pump to create the minimum head pressure to operate the clacker valve.


The ram depends upon the rivers drop to provide the force to do the job to charge the bell of the ram to force the water with the clacker and the pressure chamber.


Sizing the ram wil be the main issue and then installing the piping from the water tank to the ram.


A two pipe jet will work from the pasture with no problems. but you will need a generator to run the jet pump and a reserve supply of water at the tank if the jet needs to be primed.


If you can create a sluice with a box of some kind in the water to feed the jet with clear water you will always have water.

You should plan on a one horse power pump and a one inch drive pipe pump(the business end of a jet pump)with a three quarter inch delivery pipe to the stock tank.


You will save a wad of money by buying the Black PVC pipe in 500 foot rolls
as you will only have to make 8 connections for the two driven pipe check valves, the barbed fittings, and the drive water pipe check valves used to maintain water in the drive pipe at all times, and the 16 good gear type hose clamps.


The issues with a deep well submersible in this case are line drop, amperage load, available cooling water, and delivered torque with no aid from a torque arrestor.

A 220 volt pump would work as it will be 2 wire pump but the issues are listed above.


As long as the jet pump does not lose prime it will always work. the main issue is fouling of the jet with dirt and it wil need to be cleaned by removing it
from the water and then putting it back in the water and repriming the jet pump as you lose the water from first check valve in the one inch pipe at 200 feet to the water line.

A submersible pump will be pumping water against water pushing all the water up the single pipe system where the 2 pipe jet pump is driving the water with a larger volume of water reducing the force needed as the one inch water line is pushing the 3/4 water column is doing all the work.

The one inch pipe will have 314 gallons of water in it to drive the 3/4 inch water column of 176 gallons at all times(water quantities rounded lower)

 

[Just Bill]

Have you thought about the chemicals and crud in the water that you might be passing on to the cows?

Just think how bad it would be if it was city water.

 

[JohninCT]

What about a water wagon?

Kiser Water Wagons By ABI - Quality Water Trailers For Farm & Ranch

Instead of running power and water lines to and from the river you could drag the wagon down when needed and fill it up and fill your stock tank.

 

[leonz]

I dont think he has room for a water bowser tank
trailer and a tractor to get the water by the
sounds of it.

At least with the jet pump he will be able to
chlorinate and filter the water entering the
stock tank at the stock tank every day
to maintain his herds health to a very high
standard very inexpensively.

River water should be chlorinated and carbon
filtered as a matter of principal because of
the disease organisms present in surface water.

It would be a piece of cake to set up scaffolding
to support a black plastic poly tank ment for drinking
water, and pump the water into the tank once every
seven days to allow contact time for the small amount
of chlorine injected into the water to sterilise it.

And allow him to have more water in the tank per animal
as they each may need more than 35 gallons per day as
salt should be provided as well.

The use of a white plastic tank will allow algae to
grow in the tank even with chlorine dosing as it is
exposed to sunlight.

I want you to succeed and not fail and have sick animals
infected with water borne parasites like Giardia and other
diseases and have them die on you simply because its
dirty untreated driver water. :thumbsup:

 

[Egon]

The Ram Pump idea sounds interesting. Do some checking on it.

A small submersible should work just fine. Make a cement block to hold it and the piping, pump and pump screen in place and drop the whole thing in the river.

Talk to the fellows at a pump shop, if possible, on sizes available.

If you really need water treatment look at ultraviolet and a two section water tank.

 

[mmurphy]

I was raised on a dairy farm and never treated the water in the creek for our cows! I would be more scared of trihalomethanes treating a surface water with chlorine not knowing how to remove organics. Now we are talking about a surface treatment water plant.