Pumping up 60 feet or so ?

[KentT]

I'm no pump expert, either, nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn last night...

However, I just went through this process and ended up buying a 13,000+ GPH pump with gasoline engine for under $400. I chose this approach for several reasons:

1. The volume of water that a pump will truly pump is also a factor of the size of the intake hose, the output hose, how high and how far you're pumping it...
2. I chose a higher volume because of lift and distance required, in addition to the fact that I want to accomplish the task in hours instead of days, and I didn't want to deal with automatic controls such as floats, switches, etc. that would be required if I weren't monitoring it directly... How much will it really pump? We lowered the water level in a 4 acre pond about 4" in 4 hours, pumping it 400 feet through I" black PVC pipe...

3. I chose a complete, gas powered unit so it would be portable for use in any location, readily and securely stored when not in use, and didn't require either electric wires (exposed to weather) or my tractor to run it. My friend (who we trade/swap tools and labor) has recently borrowed it and irrigated his garden with it due to lack of rain.

While you're hearing all kinds of possibilities that would meet basic needs, I suggest you evaluate the features/benefits and the costs of each, against your specific needs...

 

[turnkey4099]

Something seems to be losing my posts. I posted yiesterday but will try again. Most of my points have been covered but I will summarize some and add a bit of technical.

Your total lift is 60 ft and as you pointed out, any "suck" distance is subtracted from that.

The physics is that you need .46 PSI to lift water 1 ft. Thus 60ft of head will need about 30 psi at the pump. 40 ft head would be about 20 psi.

Any shallow well puimp for residential use will do that and they are cheap. You do need a footvalve (goes on the end of the "suck" pipe).

Re: filters. I irrigated for years out of a creek. The only filter I ever used was to wrap window screening around the foot valve.

With your set-up and since you say you don't care about fill time, I would check into a 'ram pump' Requires either a good flow past your pump point or an extended 'input' pipe running up stream a ways. A rem pump only uses a small portion of the water going through it but it pumps 24/7 and uses no external power at all.

Harry K

 

[shasta]

Shasta
Is that the one made by the Amish? floats in the river?

You can buy a centrifugal pump that runs off an electric motor and put a float valve in the tank so it fills automatically.

Ram pumps kick Butt! a few Folkies round here have em and they work very well. (If you have the drop)

MY other neighbor uses what Mchasal/ Ralph recomended but hooked up to a solar panel,runs all day......but not at night...... need a batt intertie for that.

Dont have to many neighbors but were all in the same boat off grid and far far away!(round 200, in round million acres)

theres lots of good info here!

I haven't seen a ram pump so I dan't know how they compare to the Rochfer (rochfer.com.br) pump. It is made by a Brazilian co. They say that it will make 200psi. Mine has no trouble pumping 150 feet above the pump to where I have the tanks set. I have the MS-51. It takes about 5.5 to 6 ft of drop to drive the wheel.

 

[HomeBrew2]

Just for the record: Ram pump
Real cheap, real functional, been around for ever.

 

[stevenf]

bcarwell, South Texas is in a drought the area around us is getting close to Stage 5 to give you some idea how bad it is, if the cow creek aquifer drops about 10% more we go to stage 6 which includes prohibiting any irrigation of crops grown for human consumption, right now we can irrigate 1 day a week between 6pm and 10am. Now this is all good and fine whats it mean to you, folks are watching the fines for getting caught are extraordinary, do you have pumping rights from the river your considering doing this on? If not the Texas Natural Resources commision and or the LCRA will be on you faster then stink on s@#&. I'd expect since you list your area as Austin that we're talking about a tributary of the Colorado or maybe the Pedernales but if your dead set on doing it and you don't have pumping rights get ready for a fight. I liked the idea of the portable pump system maybe you could sneak it down after dark and let it run all night, anything hard plumbed unless you have in writing a pumpers permit no matter whether everybody else does it or not I wouldn't be installing a glued or screwed together permanent system. You'll be amazed at the LCRA price tag for water "stolen" from their river they charge by "their" estimate of gallons at something like 30 cents a gallon plus the fine for doing it. I've got some experience with this issue having helped my brother undo his tap into the Pedernales it ended up costing him something like $20,000. he'd had the system in place for a couple of years when they called. Good luck on your project just passing along info but probably not exactly the kind you were hoping for.
Steve

 

[Paddy]

Well pumps come in diff sizes depending on depth. In your case it sounds like you are saying 60' of elevation from river to pond. If not, determine the true height so you don't over buy. Go to a plumbing suply and ask to cost of a pump that will handle your condition. Because it is a common well pump, cost will be relitivly low.

When I was a kid, we got our cabin's water direct from a lake. There was a screan at the inlet.

 

[PILOON]

I have browsed the topic a bit.

Most pumps suck too 1 atmosphere or about 30 ish ft in theory, in practice read 25 ft or so except for injector systems that basically push water down to push more back up.
This requires 2 lines and sometimes tricky priming.

All pumps will push far with good pressure but pipe size and length come into play as does friction.

Best, easiest is the deep well pump.
Heck a 1/3hp at 12 gpm is all you need.
Special wire and shrink splices are totally waterproof.
Just hook it up, tape the wire to the hose/pipe an toss the mess into the river, plug it in and wou get instant water flow without any primeing.

I have dozens setup for cottages.
For fall drainage we install an inline 'T' with a ball valve for drainage.
Once drained we shut the valve and toss it back in the lake, ready for instant spring switch on.
The trick is to strap the pump to some sort of stand to keep the pump clear and free from silt and sand.
Many deep well pumps have special impellers to handle sandy conditions.

Expect to pay min $100 (ebay) to about $300 for say, 1/2 hp 12GPM.
2 wire pump would be the way to go.(vs 3 wire that needs a relay control box).
Add to that some sort of float operated switch for when pond level gets low and you would have an automatic leveling pond.

Good luck

 

[bcarwell]

bcarwell, South Texas is in a drought the area around us is getting close to Stage 5 to give you some idea how bad it is, if the cow creek aquifer drops about 10% more we go to stage 6 which includes prohibiting any irrigation of crops grown for human consumption, right now we can irrigate 1 day a week between 6pm and 10am. Now this is all good and fine whats it mean to you, folks are watching the fines for getting caught are extraordinary, do you have pumping rights from the river your considering doing this on? If not the Texas Natural Resources commision and or the LCRA will be on you faster then stink on s@#&. I'd expect since you list your area as Austin that we're talking about a tributary of the Colorado or maybe the Pedernales but if your dead set on doing it and you don't have pumping rights get ready for a fight. I liked the idea of the portable pump system maybe you could sneak it down after dark and let it run all night, anything hard plumbed unless you have in writing a pumpers permit no matter whether everybody else does it or not I wouldn't be installing a glued or screwed together permanent system. You'll be amazed at the LCRA price tag for water "stolen" from their river they charge by "their" estimate of gallons at something like 30 cents a gallon plus the fine for doing it. I've got some experience with this issue having helped my brother undo his tap into the Pedernales it ended up costing him something like $20,000. he'd had the system in place for a couple of years when they called. Good luck on your project just passing along info but probably not exactly the kind you were hoping for.
Steve

Steve,
Thanks for the information and non-preachy warning. I am definitely going to do everything by the book no matter what I could get away with and under the watchful eye of the Ag Extension office. First, because its the right thing to do. Second, I don't want to jeopardize my Ag Exemption (we take possession in August BTW). I was researching the Texas Water Rights and what a mess of confusion. One thing I read was you are entitled to get 200 acre-feet for a stock pond, etc. without permit. But in drought conditions I wouldn't be surprised if there is now an exception. Hopefully the drought will pass before I am actually ready to do anything, since I've got so much to do and to figure out what I want. Actually for the first few years I wouldn't be surprised if all I did was have a small garden and a few grape vines. More than anything I was intrigued about the engineering of how, assuming it was legal to do, one in fact does get water up such an embankment (the San Gabriel, BTW). Anyway, thanks for all the helpful information.