Pumping up 60 feet or so ?

[scott_vt]

All GREAT advice. This forum is terrific. Gotta digest it all and will be back. In meantime, a guy at work said for centrifugal or 'suck' pumps, physics says if you have even a perfect vacuum, the most you get is air pressure 14 psi and you won't be able to get up 60 feet. True ?

Farmer Bob

Hi Bob,
I have to jump into this conversation, not because Im a pump expert, I am not. But your buddy at work is misunderstanding you or you him.

Let me start by saying I have been a volunteer fireman for just about 25 years. Most all FD pumps are centrifugal. Years ago before we had porta tanks and all these modern conviences we used small billy pumps in the woods for pumping from small ponds and streams to wherever the fire was. These pumps were all centrifugal for the most part. They could LIFT the water, meaning they could suck the water to the pump anywhere between 5-10 ft elevation. But they could pump that water up some incredible elevations to the fire ! 100 ft or more was not uncommon! Our pumper trucks could do the same thing but on a grander scale !!!

I think your friend at work meant that there are limitations on the amount of lift, sucking as you put it, for any type of pump ! Whether it be a small portable or larger pump as on a truck.

One other thing, you obviously need hard suction hose to get the water to the pump .

 

[mchasal]

In meantime, a guy at work said for centrifugal or 'suck' pumps, physics says if you have even a perfect vacuum, the most you get is air pressure 14 psi and you won't be able to get up 60 feet. True ?

That is basically true. What that means is that the pump can only pull water a small distance from below it's own elevation. I believe the "theoretical" max is 32' at standard atmospheric pressure, but real world would be lower, maybe 25' or so. Once the pump is pushing the water, it can go much farther, that is what is referred to as "head".

In water well pump terms a "shallow well" is a pure suction pump which pulls the water up a single line and they are only good for that 25' or so. A "deep well" or "jet pump" uses 2 lines. Water is pumped down one line and the increase in pressure forces more water up the second line.

Bottom line, you're going to need to get pump down closer to the water level. If you can put a pump within 20' or so of the elevation, it can suck the water up that far and then push it the rest of the way.

Mike

 

[bcarwell]

Thanks all. This is starting to make sense. And I can find a place 20 feet or less in elevation along the bank above the river level for a pump landing for sucking the water out (subject to checking the change in water level during floods/rainy season). And then I just have another 50 feet or so to go in elevation to make the tank top.

So what is this type pump called that can suck up to 20 feet, and then provide the head or lift of the other 50 feet ? I'm pretty sure I want it electric and preferably 110VAC ? It would only have to be continuous use long enough to fill a 5000 gallon tank or so. I would then use the water out of the tank intermittently for irrigation, putting out burning steaks, etc.

Farmer Bob

 

[mchasal]

Something like this would probably work: http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200311411_200311411

Mike

 

[shasta]

I use a waterwheel driven pump to irrigate a few acres. It produces about 4000 gal per day. Works 24 hrs a day, quiet, no energy costs and has been very reliable. Pump and waterwheel cost about $900 plus pipe and tank. This pump will pump up to about 300 ft elivation.

 

[RalphVa]

You can get solar-powered well pumps, if that's what you're interested in. They'd have no trouble pumping 60' up on discharge side. Just sink a hole near or in the creek and insert a piece of pipe to put the pump into. Not sure what they put around the bottom of the pipe in a well. Think you can research this or ask someone at Lowes or Home Depot where they have well pumps (not solar; I don't think at these places).

Ralph

 

[tommu56]

you can pump the water with a water ram it needs some water flow and a little drop in elevation will push it amazingly high. Google water ram or fife water ram there are many plans on the web to build one

tom

 

[monkeymonk]

Shasta
Is that the one made by the Amish? floats in the river?

You can buy a centrifugal pump that runs off an electric motor and put a float valve in the tank so it fills automatically.

Ram pumps kick Butt! a few Folkies round here have em and they work very well. (If you have the drop)

MY other neighbor uses what Mchasal/ Ralph recomended but hooked up to a solar panel,runs all day......but not at night...... need a batt intertie for that.

Dont have to many neighbors but were all in the same boat off grid and far far away!(round 200, in round million acres)

theres lots of good info here!

 

[kensfarm]

I use a deep well pump that was removed from my house well.. (the pump had stripped the wires rubbing against the casing and stopped working.. since the well company had pulled 360ft of the black pvc hose up.. I told them to go ahead and put a new pump in.. I saved the old one)

It's 1/2 hp deep well pump.. it's currently in the creek(since last year) in about 2 feet of water(sitting on tree roots).. the lift is about 80ft up the creek bank.. runs through 400ft of the 3/4 black pvc hose.. then 200 feet of garden hose connected to 2 sprinkler heads that are attached to 12ft tri-pods. The biggest hump is running the electric down to the pump.

 

[TheKid]

I know you get what you pay for, but at $69.99 the price is right. HarborFreight pump Stainless steel pump housing, 26' suction, 164' lift and 898 GPH.