QA Bucket Rollback Angle Increaser???

[john_bud]

Then again, if there was high quality paint on there in the first place, it wouldn't chip. (Dupont Corlar 2.1 PR primer and industrial Imron 3.5HG or similar)

Actually, welding it on would make it look like it was a factory option. I think it should have been in the first place. Still - even I wouldn't weld it on with out first trying it out. Cut out your cardboard pieces and see what you think. Then see what it would cost to have it made.

Hint: if you use plywood to make a negative form that is about 3/8" too large the plasma cut can be done way quick. Quick saves $$. When you have the holes drilled, have the stack clamped all holes done in one pass so they are all lined up.

Note" the square yellow part has a 1/2 cirlce cutout to allow for the DOM tube boss to be placed and welded on.

If you make it up, be sure to post some pictures of how it came out.

jb

 

[Dougster]

Then again, if there was high quality paint on there in the first place, it wouldn't chip. (Dupont Corlar 2.1 PR primer and industrial Imron 3.5HG or similar)

Actually, welding it on would make it look like it was a factory option. I think it should have been in the first place. Still - even I wouldn't weld it on with out first trying it out. Cut out your cardboard pieces and see what you think. Then see what it would cost to have it made.

Hint: if you use plywood to make a negative form that is about 3/8" too large the plasma cut can be done way quick. Quick saves $$. When you have the holes drilled, have the stack clamped all holes done in one pass so they are all lined up.

Note" the square yellow part has a 1/2 cirlce cutout to allow for the DOM tube boss to be placed and welded on.

If you make it up, be sure to post some pictures of how it came out.

jb

Hi JB - I've actually been examining and playing with the "tool carrier" as they call it all day... except for when the local cops tried to arrest me!!! Yes, a little "ugly payback" from the town for complaining to them that the crown of the reconstructed road in front of my house was built wrong and has my vehicles and trailers effectively blocked in! Shame on me for complaining that my vehicles are ALL bottoming out on every exit and re-entry!!!

Anyway... one minute I think I see your concept working... and the next minute it looks hopeless... or at least unable to increase the rollback angle at dead nutz bottom position by enough to make any real difference in the pebble gravel (a.k.a., "marbles") scenario first stated. The model will help... but I intend to make it two-dimensional out of paper using actual cutout photos of the components. Gotta move a bunch of things and get the tractor out of the garage to take those pix. Probably not going to happen for a day or two... many other issues filling my plate here this week.

Like maybe... Staying out of jail!!!

Dougster

 

[kevinj]

Ask and receive ...

Dougster

It looks like you can drop the cylinders to the lower set of holes. You may lose some curl power but should get more travel.

 

[N80]

Are you going to design me one? Dougster

Yes! But it will be expensive, cash in advance, no refunds and highly unlikely to work.

No, I have the same problem on a Kubota without a QD assembly and I'm just looking for ideas.

 

[Dougster]

Another view for JB. Note that the "tool carrier" is exactly vertical at dead nutz bottoming out on the FEL. In other words, whatever rollback angle I get at FEL DNB is provided by the design... i.e., the mount angle... of the bucket. Also note the angle of the bucket cylinder when fully retracted:

By my calculations, all I can gain is 13.7 degrees theoretically and about 11.0 degrees in a practical sense by kicking out the bottom mounting pin as far as possible before I reach a straight line between the upper and lower pins and the fully retracted bucket cylinder... which to me still defines the maximum achievable angle without getting into an unstable & uncontrollable situation.

Am I wrong about this? 11 to 13 degrees really buys me nothing in the marbles game.

 

[Dougster]

It looks like you can drop the cylinders to the lower set of holes. You may lose some curl power but should get more travel.

Forbidden according to the FEL technical manual. Those holes are supposedly only to be used on a different (ML108) loader. I'm also doubtful it would help in any way with my rollback angle (at DNB) issue.

Dougster

 

[civesnedfield]

Ya know doug the easiest way to do this is to just get another bucket. If I rember right you already have, two or is it three. What's one more. I am still trying to figure a way to do this withoutgoing that way.

 

[Dougster]

Ya know doug the easiest way to do this is to just get another bucket. If I rember right you already have, two or is it three. What's one more. I am still trying to figure a way to do this withoutgoing that way.

Yeah... I've got a monster 78" HD, my stock 72" light-duty... and I'm waiting on a Loflin 66" skidsteer tooth bucket from that place way down under that begins with an "H"!!!

Not sure of the mount angle on it, but it must be a little greater than my two KMW buckets. No timetable on it however... still waiting for a bulk shipment to my local supplier (Wright Trailers, Inc.).

I still think that to achieve what I'd like to achieve, the bucket would have to be custom made or seriously modified. I keep wondering how often it would actually get used???

Dougster

 

[civesnedfield]

What you need to look at is the angle of the back of the bucket relative to the bottom whel the bucket is level. The greater the angle the more roll back you will get. I know what you are going thru. I was cleaning the barn this weekend and lets say that I have done a very good job of feertilizing the yard betweent the barn and the manure pile.

I have been looking at sites for buckets and what I am finding is that "dirt" buckets seem to have a greater angle than the rest.

 

[kevinj]

Forbidden according to the FEL technical manual. Those holes are supposedly only to be used on a different (ML108) loader. I'm also doubtful it would help in any way with my rollback angle (at DNB) issue.

Dougster

I can see that in the last photo. It is never simple...........

 

[Dougster]

I can see that in the last photo. It is never simple...........

Makes for a convenient lifting point though for extra heavy loads!

Dougster

 

[civesnedfield]

Hey Doug,
I found what you need. Go over to the Customization Forum and look at the thread labled Bucket hook Pics.
The second set of pics has a loader set up that i think would do what you want.

 

[Dougster]

Hey Doug, I found what you need. Go over to the Customization Forum and look at the thread labled Bucket hook Pics. The second set of pics has a loader set up that i think would do what you want.

Yep... This is what I was referring to... perhaps incorrectly... as a compound bucket linkage arrangement:

If done correctly, this arrangement has the effect of increasing total range and rollback angle greatly... but note that it is achieved in large part by being able to greatly angle out the carrier. Note the angle formed between the line formed by the carrier pins and the front face of the carrier. Unfortunately, mine are essentially parallel to each other and perpendicular to the ground at DNB.

In other words, I don't think it would do much for me and my particular tool carrier without major surgery.

Also note that the front of that particular boom assembly is set at a much more relaxed angle than on my FEL.

Dougster

 

[john_bud]

Another view for JB. Note that the "tool carrier" is exactly vertical at dead nutz bottoming out on the FEL. In other words, whatever rollback angle I get at FEL DNB is provided by the design... i.e., the mount angle... of the bucket. Also note the angle of the bucket cylinder when fully retracted:

By my calculations, all I can gain is 13.7 degrees theoretically and about 11.0 degrees in a practical sense by kicking out the bottom mounting pin as far as possible before I reach a straight line between the upper and lower pins and the fully retracted bucket cylinder... which to me still defines the maximum achievable angle without getting into an unstable & uncontrollable situation.

Am I wrong about this? 11 to 13 degrees really buys me nothing in the marbles game.

Dougster, First point is based on your last comment. The 11-13 degrees you calculated is in addition to the current bucket roll back max. Assuming it's about 22 degrees, adding 11 bumps it up to 33 degrees. That's a bunch.

Can you please define what you mean by an "unstable & uncontrollable situation" ? That completely lost me. Maybe I'm not seeing what you are seeing ? After all there is a bit of distance...

Here's my modifications to your very nice picture.

By the way, what in the world did the police think they were arresting you for anyway? You can PM me if it's too embarassing!

jb

 

[Dougster]

Here's my modifications to your very nice picture.

I'm still having a tough time resolving the design that's in your mind vs. my understanding of your design! The distance between those two tool carrier pins (CL to CL) is 9-3/4". The bottom hole cannot be moved back 3 to 4 inches without tipping the tool carrier back too far. The most it could be moved back is maybe 1-3/4" to 2" tops before we get into the situation described above where the top pin of the tool carrier would end up at times behind the line formed by the pivot pin and the top of the bucket cylinder.

Dougster

 

[john_bud]

I'm still having a tough time resolving the design that's in your mind vs. my understanding of your design! The distance between those two tool carrier pins (CL to CL) is 9-3/4". The bottom hole cannot be moved back 3 to 4 inches without tipping the tool carrier back too far. The most it could be moved back is maybe 1-3/4" to 2" tops before we get into the situation described above where the top pin of the tool carrier would end up at times behind the line formed by the pivot pin and the top of the bucket cylinder.

Dougster

I've laid out the design as I see it. Make your model out of cardboard, then make one out of plywood. You should be able to mock up the plywood one and see if it is able to be a benefit in increasing the angle or not.

(that should keep you off the streets and out of trouble with "The Man")

jb

 

[Dougster]

That should keep you off the streets and out of trouble with "The Man" - jb

I am... quite literally... staying off the street until this work is completed. Let them do their very worst. Actually, it can't get any worse than it is now anyway. Once they are gone, the Red Beast and I will take care of business.

Dougster

 

[civesnedfield]

About you current Alert Status Doug. I know that up here in Maine if a town modifies a road or drainage ditch and that modification causes the property owner damage. the town is liable for it. I know it may be a stretch but if you cannot get you vehicles out of your own driveway to get to work, or the vehicles are damaged getting out of the driveway, and these things are a direct result of the towns reworking of the road, you might have a case.
Just something to think about. I know what you are going thru, I have been fighting with my town for 10 years now about the condition of the road. It is a steep uphill battle.

 

[kevinj]

Yep... This is what I was referring to... perhaps incorrectly... as a compound bucket linkage arrangement:

If done correctly, this arrangement has the effect of increasing total range and rollback angle greatly... but note that it is achieved in large part by being able to greatly angle out the carrier. Note the angle formed between the line formed by the carrier pins and the front face of the carrier. Unfortunately, mine are essentially parallel to each other and perpendicular to the ground at DNB.

In other words, I don't think it would do much for me and my particular tool carrier without major surgery.

Also note that the front of that particular boom assembly is set at a much more relaxed angle than on my FEL.

Dougster

That looks like my tractor!!!!!!!!!