QA Bucket Rollback Angle Increaser???

Dougster · Sep 19, 2007

SPYDERLK said:
What does KMW say about this. Is KMWs SK attach for the 4110 unfit for use, or is yours damaged?!
larry

Can't seem to link to it tonight... but Jeremy replied in another thread as follows:

What happens is that the the pressure on the pins when back dragging actually causes them to roll over center and pop up just enough to unhook it. This is a minor design flaw that a) was corrected a few years ago and b) doesn't usually show up until you get to the 55+ HP range...

It is quite possible mine is damaged... but it sounds more like it might be that old design flaw.

Dougster

SPYDERLK · Sep 19, 2007

Dougster said:
Can't seem to link to it tonight... but Jeremy replied in another thread as follows:

It is quite possible mine is damaged... but it sounds more like it might be that old design flaw.

Dougster

So youre part of KMWs learning curve? [Thank you very much. We need more like you who do not insist that a design be suitable for the application.] Or do they stand up and give you a correctly designed update?

larry

Dougster · Sep 19, 2007

SPYDERLK said:
So youre part of KMWs learning curve? [Thank you very much. We need more like you who do not insist that a design be suitable for the application.] Or do they stand up and give you a correctly designed update?
larry

Not exactly sure what you're suggesting here Larry.

As the second owner of my late-2004 machine, this is clearly not a warranty issue. One could say "shame on the original owner" of my machine for not pursuing the bucket latch problem I discovered... but them's the breaks when you buy a used machine: Ya investigate it and fix it yourself at your own expense.

Once I rebuilt the bucket latches, I figured the bucket dropping problem was behind me. Turns out I was wrong (or at least partly wrong). Now it's time to look elsewhere for the remaining problem(s) and the solution(s).

I don't know yet whether it is an old KMW design problem or whether my machine is damaged or both. The machine was used when I bought it and I am not exactly gentle with this machine... so anything is possible.

Give it a little more time before you condemn KMW for bad design and me for "not insisting that a design be suitable for the application." I don't even know if my late-2004 had the design problem or if it was made after the fix. KMW has been cooperative and helpful with me in the past and I have no reason to believe that it's now going to be any different.

Dougster

SPYDERLK · Sep 20, 2007

Dougster said:
Not exactly sure what you're suggesting here Larry. As the second owner of my late-2004 machine, this is clearly not a warranty issue. One could say "shame on the original owner" of my machine for not pursuing the bucket latch problem I discovered... but them's the breaks when you buy a used machine: Ya investigate it and fix it yourself at your own expense.

Once I rebuilt the bucket latches, I figured the bucket dropping problem was behind me. Turns out I was wrong (or at least partly wrong). Now it's time to look elsewhere for the remaining problem(s) and the solution(s).

I don't know yet whether it is an old KMW design problem or whether my machine is damaged or both. The machine was used when I bought it and I am not exactly gentle with this machine... so anything is possible.

Give it a little more time before you condemn KMW for bad design and me for "not insisting that a design be suitable for the application." I don't even know if my late-2004 had the design problem or if it was made after the fix. KMW has been cooperative and helpful with me in the past and I have no reason to believe that it's now going to be any different.

Dougster

Sorry Dougster. I didnt mean to condemn you. Those [brackets] were my imagining how good this type of occurrance comes out for the ones actually responsible. Their learning comes at the expense of the user. Regardless of the timing, it should not just be your hard luck. It seems dropping buckets could be a real safety issue and they have addressed it forward only. They should extend some consideration to you if your problem did not occur from damage.
larry

Dougster · Sep 20, 2007

SPYDERLK said:
Sorry Dougster. I didnt mean to condemn you. Those [brackets] were my imagining how good this type of occurrance comes out for the ones actually responsible. Their learning comes at the expense of the user. Regardless of the timing, it should not just be your hard luck. It seems dropping buckets could be a real safety issue and they have addressed it forward only. They should extend some consideration to you if your problem did not occur from damage.
larry

I've been in contact with KMW today and I am very happy to report that they are standing behind their product. Don't want to get too excited about the fix until a couple jobs go by without a single detachment... but I'm "cautiously optimistic" that KMW and I are finally on the right track.

Stay tuned!

Meanwhwile, I spent quite a bit of time today looking for possible damage and rebuilding the latches yet again. Turns out that the replacement springs I recently bought through Mahindra are quite different than the original springs... and from the replacements I had purchased locally to essentially match those original springs before the Mahindra springs arrived. Now knowing of the difference, I swapped over to the Mahindra-supplied springs today to see if they will make any difference in performance.

I also found some minor damage to latch components which I fixed... possibly the result of so many drops. Still, I'm seeing an unusual looseness in the left pin even after today's rebuilding. I will adjust the pins again before tomorrow's job to get them as even in tightness and insertion pressure as possible.

The tool carrier itself has some unusual wear points near the bottom which I will try to match up to my various buckets over the next week or so. Again, this could be nothing... or possibly just the result of the many drops.

Dougster

SPYDERLK · Sep 20, 2007

On mine it is impossible for the pins to retract out of their slots unless the lever handle is thrown up to retract them. The springs justlocate the levers in the down detented position. In the down/lock detent position the lever is overcentered on the pivot. Pin force against the lever just reinforces its position securing it even more in the lock orientation. Like yours??
larry

Dougster · Sep 20, 2007

SPYDERLK said:
On mine it is impossible for the pins to retract out of their slots unless the lever handle is thrown up to retract them. The springs just locate the levers in the down detented position. In the down/lock detent position the lever is overcentered on the pivot. Pin force against the lever just reinforces its position securing it even more in the lock orientation. Like yours??
larry

Mine is mostly as you have described; however, the pins are definitely held down by the springs... not by the guide rod which is free to move upward (along with the attached pins) as necessary compressing the spring. In other words, the spring does more than just lock the mechanism in place. The spring is also what applies the downward force to the pins. With my original springs (and the near-identical locally bought replacements) much more upward movement was possible (due to fewer and wider spaced coils) than with these new springs I recently purchased through Mahindra.

Dougster

SPYDERLK · Sep 20, 2007

Yeah, the spring does apply down force seating the pin fully engaged, but if the pin rises against spring force its guide rod soon hits a hard stop overcentered on the lever. On mine the hard stop occurs after the pins rise about 1/4". This leaves them still protruding about 1/4" thru the slots. I dont see how my bucket can come off w/o bending or breaking something.
larry

Dougster · Sep 21, 2007

SPYDERLK said:
Yeah, the spring does apply down force seating the pin fully engaged, but if the pin rises against spring force its guide rod soon hits a hard stop overcentered on the lever. On mine the hard stop occurs after the pins rise about 1/4". This leaves them still protruding about 1/4" thru the slots. I dont see how my bucket can come off w/o bending or breaking something.
larry

We must have different designs. There are no hard stops on mine whatsoever other than when a spring completely bottoms out. If the spring were not there, the pin and the bottom of the guide rod could rise all the way up to the spring stop and pivot assembly. This is why the springs are so critical on my design.

Take a look at this photo:

The first spring is a used and badly compressed/distorted original style spring. The second is an original style spring in good condition (same as I had installed). The last one is a new design spring I recently purchased through Mahindra. You can clearly see that the newest style spring has many more coils and will not compress down nearly as much before bottoming out. This is why I swapped in those newest style springs last night after comparing new vs. old and seeing the difference.

We'll see today if the new style springs help. My sense is that they might help reduce the number of drops... but based on my observations of the failure mechanism, this is not likely to be the complete solution.

Dougster

SPYDERLK · Sep 21, 2007

Dougster said:
We must have different designs. There are no hard stops on mine whatsoever other than when a spring completely bottoms out. If the spring were not there, the pin and the bottom of the guide rod could rise all the way up to the spring stop and pivot assembly. This is why the springs are so critical on my design.

We'll see today if the new style springs help. My sense is that they might help reduce the number of drops... but based on my observations of the failure mechanism, this is not likely to be the complete solution.

Dougster