TheKid
Gold Member
I have to agree with the others that there is some kind of mechanical issue with your brakes. I have a 2002 F250 PSD with 95K on the original rotors and pads and haven't had any kind of problem. I average 65% hiway and 35% city.
Question about brakes?
- Thread starter GreatWhitehunter
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HappyCPE
Gold Member
I am experiencing the same issue with my '04 F250 PSD. I wonder if the front weight bias on the heavy diesel truck makes a difference? My truck goes to the dealer Friday so I will add anything I learn then, but so far, you folks are a great source of info.
tlbuser
Veteran Member
HappyCPE said:
It could make a difference. I'm not sure how Ford sets up their proportioning valve for front to rear brake distribution. Also, do they incorporate a load sensing proportional valve? If the front brakes are doing way more than their fair share of the braking action, that will increase the heat load thereby increasing rotor warpage and pad wear and component failure.
MrJimi
Elite Member, Rest in Peace
I have a question for all of ya with warped rotors..
How many of ya plow in a deep puddle and make a spray like a racing boat and think it's purty? I have many times and paid dearly for it, now think about a hot rotor hitting a real sudden cold water shock.. It will warp in less than a heartbeat
Thanks and drive through puddles slower now and have round rotors
How many of ya plow in a deep puddle and make a spray like a racing boat and think it's purty? I have many times and paid dearly for it, now think about a hot rotor hitting a real sudden cold water shock.. It will warp in less than a heartbeat
Thanks and drive through puddles slower now and have round rotors
travis potter
Silver Member
I agree with spiveyman on not turning the roters even if you have several groves, the pads wear to the graves and you have better breaks [ more area = more brakes ] My 05 F150 needed new roters at 11,000 miles and new front pads at 32,000 miles. My 02 went 60,000 miles on front pads and never replaced the roters, they were still good at 110,000 miles. The new Fords just have BAD brakes, talking to several different shops. Just my 2cents worth.
Spiveyman
Platinum Member
Yeah that puddle thing is for real. Been there too. I also caused a split distributor cap on an older vehicle where the water splashed up in the engine and the temp change cracked the cap. Slow it down and keep a light steady pressure on the breaks through those puddles. Of course that's not been the problem around here lately. I'd glady replace my rotors if we had enough rain to make a puddle!!!
I had an '03 Expedition, which uses the same brakes as the new F150's. They were larger rotors and pads and I loved those brakes compared to my 01 F150. My dad and papaw both have '05 F150's, they pull a party barge and cattle on a gooseneck respectively and both love their brakes, great stopping power, no warpage so far.
I had an '03 Expedition, which uses the same brakes as the new F150's. They were larger rotors and pads and I loved those brakes compared to my 01 F150. My dad and papaw both have '05 F150's, they pull a party barge and cattle on a gooseneck respectively and both love their brakes, great stopping power, no warpage so far.
Spiveyman said:
Is it me, or does it seem like the auto companies (not just ford, the rest too) make a good product, then cheap it down so bad it turns to cow patties - lose market share or get sued, then fix it back to where it was before?
It's not like they don't know how to make brakes!!!
jb
OP
GreatWhitehunter
Veteran Member
Well, I didn't get alot of feedback over on the Ford site. And it seems no one here has any sure fire solution to my problem. I'm thinking I should look into aftermarket pads and rotors. And maybe find another dealer? I don't know enough about the brakes to perform the work myself. So is my feelings on this the groups opinions.
Matt T.
Matt T.
wrenchturner
Silver Member
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2006
- Messages
- 171
I will try to help you determine what is causing your problem.
First let's determine if the problem is in the front or the rear. If the pulsation is felt in the steering wheel as well as the brake pedal then the problem is with the front brakes. If the pulsation is felt when the emergency brakes are applied, then the rear brakes are the problem.
What is the root cause of the brake pedal pulsation? The rotors are wobbling as they turn. Initially the calipers slide with the wobble (unless extreme) but eventually the rotors become thick and thin. This is due to the pads touching harder on the outside then 1/2 round later the inside pad touches harder. The specs are usually for no more then .0005" uneveness. As the thick and thin areas of the rotors pass through the caliper they grip less and more causing unven wear.
What are the causes of the wobble? Just like wood warps due to internal stress, the same can happen to your rotors. Just takes heating and cooling cycles to have the stress show up as warped rotors. I have actually taken new rotors from the box only to find they are warped. Overtightening the lug nuts can cause stress. Also, the mounting surface around the lug studs on the hub and hub itself needs to be clean and flat. Burs wll be evident on the rotors around the holes which can be removed with a file. There is a hollow brush which is mounted on a die grinder that can be used to clean around the studs. Perhaps the hub has excessive runout from the factory. Lastly, cheap rotors from China tend to warp more. I like Bendix and Raybestos which both have been around a long time.
Did your tech use an on car brake lathe? When the rotors are turned on the car they are already placed understress by the tightened lug nuts. When properly done this is the best way to turn rotors.
If the rotors were turned on a bench lathe, wobble could have been cut into the rotors due to uncleanliness, bent brake lathe arbor, or burs on the mounting adapters. Once mounted on the hub, check the runout with a dial indicator. The runout can be reduced by reindexing the rotor on the hub if the hub has runout. I know there are aftermarket shims available with unenen
thickness that can be reindexed to the rotor to eliminate runout. Most limits for runout should be no more than .002". That is literally the thickness of a hair.
What is my opinion on turning rotors. Safety and liability are the most important. When a rotor is grooved even slightly the new pads will not grip as well as they should. Sure they will later as the pads wear to conform to the rotor surface but what happens when the customer leaves the shop and some little girl chases her ball into the street and you cannot stop in time. Who do you think the customer and everybody else is going to blame?
Also, as stated before the rotor probably already as some runout and it is only a matter of time before the rotors become excessively thick and thin causing brake pedal pulsation.
To fix your problem you can have the rotors turned on a bench lathe or on the car. Make sure the rotors are mounted and the runout is within specs. Make sure the mounting surfaces are clean. Make sure the lug nuts are torqued properly. Make sure the calipers are not dragging and both front and rear brakes are working. Put a swirl or non directional finish on the rotors also.
First let's determine if the problem is in the front or the rear. If the pulsation is felt in the steering wheel as well as the brake pedal then the problem is with the front brakes. If the pulsation is felt when the emergency brakes are applied, then the rear brakes are the problem.
What is the root cause of the brake pedal pulsation? The rotors are wobbling as they turn. Initially the calipers slide with the wobble (unless extreme) but eventually the rotors become thick and thin. This is due to the pads touching harder on the outside then 1/2 round later the inside pad touches harder. The specs are usually for no more then .0005" uneveness. As the thick and thin areas of the rotors pass through the caliper they grip less and more causing unven wear.
What are the causes of the wobble? Just like wood warps due to internal stress, the same can happen to your rotors. Just takes heating and cooling cycles to have the stress show up as warped rotors. I have actually taken new rotors from the box only to find they are warped. Overtightening the lug nuts can cause stress. Also, the mounting surface around the lug studs on the hub and hub itself needs to be clean and flat. Burs wll be evident on the rotors around the holes which can be removed with a file. There is a hollow brush which is mounted on a die grinder that can be used to clean around the studs. Perhaps the hub has excessive runout from the factory. Lastly, cheap rotors from China tend to warp more. I like Bendix and Raybestos which both have been around a long time.
Did your tech use an on car brake lathe? When the rotors are turned on the car they are already placed understress by the tightened lug nuts. When properly done this is the best way to turn rotors.
If the rotors were turned on a bench lathe, wobble could have been cut into the rotors due to uncleanliness, bent brake lathe arbor, or burs on the mounting adapters. Once mounted on the hub, check the runout with a dial indicator. The runout can be reduced by reindexing the rotor on the hub if the hub has runout. I know there are aftermarket shims available with unenen
thickness that can be reindexed to the rotor to eliminate runout. Most limits for runout should be no more than .002". That is literally the thickness of a hair.
What is my opinion on turning rotors. Safety and liability are the most important. When a rotor is grooved even slightly the new pads will not grip as well as they should. Sure they will later as the pads wear to conform to the rotor surface but what happens when the customer leaves the shop and some little girl chases her ball into the street and you cannot stop in time. Who do you think the customer and everybody else is going to blame?
Also, as stated before the rotor probably already as some runout and it is only a matter of time before the rotors become excessively thick and thin causing brake pedal pulsation.
To fix your problem you can have the rotors turned on a bench lathe or on the car. Make sure the rotors are mounted and the runout is within specs. Make sure the mounting surfaces are clean. Make sure the lug nuts are torqued properly. Make sure the calipers are not dragging and both front and rear brakes are working. Put a swirl or non directional finish on the rotors also.
MikeD74T
Veteran Member
My wife & daughter are always on the gas or on the brakes - nothing in between. They get 20k max between rotor turns because of pedal pump/vibration & new shoes. I learned from my father to plan my stops & coast toward them. I've got over 70k on '02 Silverado HD original brakes. I drive 3 miles to work so highway miles isn't the reason for longevity. I've also been told, when fixing wife's/daughter's brakes about releasing the pedal immediately after a hot stop. How quick are your stops ??
I'm a fan of super modified stock car racing. It's always fun to see the new hot drivers agressively braking & accellerating in the first half of a race only to be overtaken by smoother drivers that still have brakes in the second half. MikeD74T
I'm a fan of super modified stock car racing. It's always fun to see the new hot drivers agressively braking & accellerating in the first half of a race only to be overtaken by smoother drivers that still have brakes in the second half. MikeD74T
