QUESTION: any problem adding larger front tires?

[GManBart]

I know, but since he's (the dealer) the one that would be doing warranty work on it, if something does break, he might not be able to get it covered

Sure, I still don't think it's worth the effort to change, but since we're talking about the factual problem, or no problem, it's kind of a different topic.

Did you think to ask why the offer different size rears with the same fronts if it's that critical?

 

[Gary Fowler]

If you feel energetic, do the roll test with the current tires in 2 WD and then put in 4 WD and see if the fronts come out to the same spot or are the spinning or sliding a bit. They are supposed to spin a bit faster. If the lug bolt holds are the same, you could do the same test with your LS tires on the MF and see if it is substantially different. I would for sure ask that dealer why they sell the tractor with the larger tires if it is damaging. Sound like they just made a statement based on opinion/hearsay just like lots of folks have done.
If your rolling distance proves out that the front tires are still neutral or slightly faster turning than the rear, I would put on the larger tires if that is what I wanted, especially if they supply them from the factory that size. The other question is will the smaller tires hurt the LS? So the same scenario needs to be done to make sure they aren't binding.

Now for my opinion: likely you wont see a lot of difference in floatation between the two tires. Sure the wide ones look better than skinny ones, but there shouldn't be enough difference in ground pressure on the large ones to hold them up in wet soil as compared to the slightly smaller ones.

 

[CharlieKtractor]

thread almost turned into uselessness--no one has mentioned how hard it is on the drivetrain to run on pavement in 4X4--that being said if you're in 2X4 it doesn't matter what size tires you got on the rear compared to the front-truck or tractor JMMHO

 

[/pine]

It might have been mentioned earlier in the thread...but when I was going through this trying to locate exact size replacement tires that were no longer available...it all boiled down to "rolling circumferences"...

http://www.firestoneag.com/webres/File/Tire-Info/TireInfo-RCI.pdf

you can also Google "how to measure rolling circumferences" for more...

 

[MtnViewRanch]

There is about 7.6% difference in the front tires circumference. There is an acceptable ratio difference with each of the tractors. Not knowing what that difference is, is the problem. Figure out what the ratios are for each tractor as they now are. Then figure out what the ratio is when the OEM larger tires are on the Massey. If the ratio is the same with the smaller tires and with the none OEM bigger tires (we already know that it is much different with only the OEM larger rear tires) that will tell you what is ok or not. If you are anywhere between the 2 different Massey OEM ratios, I would think that you would be good to go.

Just my :2cents:

 

[MikePA]

I know, but since he's (the dealer) the one that would be doing warranty work on it, if something does break, he might not be able to get it covered

Asking the dealer was the only correct thing to do. The only 'math' that matters is who pays if damage resulted from changing the front tire size.

 

[/pine]

...The only 'math' that matters is who pays if damage resulted...

IMO...This is part of the problem in America today...wanting someone else to take responsibility...!

an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure... i.e., eliminate as much potential for damage from the onset... do the right math in the first place...

 

[MikePA]

IMO...This is part of the problem in America today...wanting someone else to take responsibility...!

an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure... i.e., eliminate as much potential for damage from the onset... do the right math in the first place...

Perhaps I am misinterpreting what you've written, however, following the directions of the dealer has nothing to do with wanting someone else to take responsibility, nor is it a condemnation of all of America. Talk about a leap.

The OP has all the information he needs. It is his tractor and he is obviously free to put whatever size tires on it he wants to.

 

[GManBart]

Asking the dealer was the only correct thing to do. The only 'math' that matters is who pays if damage resulted from changing the front tire size.

Wow, very authorative answer...the only correct thing? It's blind faith commentary like this that causes as many problems as it prevents. If you really think the dealer knows the actual mechanics of the tire ratio change, you're kidding yourself. According to their own answer, they shouldn't offer two different size rear tires with the same front tire, but they do, and they almost certainly don't know why.

If you do the simple math to sort out the actual, not hypothetical, ratio, you'll know whether it will cause a problem or not. Knowing, for a fact, by doing the actual measurements, and the math, is the only way to know for sure whether it will cause a problem....not asking a dealer, not checking with your buddy who's a "mechanic," and certainly not asking on the Internet. If the math and measurements show it will be fine, nothing else matters. Everything else is a guess, blind faith, or foolish hope that somebody else knows what they're talking about.

 

[TSO]

I've spoken with about 10 different Massey dealerships, & I also called AGCO directly ... each place has said not to change the tire size, because the rear and front tire sizes are supposed to work together with a Certain Ratio in mind.
However, none of them could tell me if there was any room in that ratio for adjustment, however small, to go up or down a tire size.

None said that there was not any room for adjustment, but they all said they did not know.

I I know some of you have mentioned to just not use the 4 wheel drive, but that would not work at all, as I use the front drive wheels all the time for doing loader work. Just would not be practical to not use 4 wheel drive

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I've spoken with about 10 different Massey dealerships, & I also called AGCO directly ... each place has said not to change the tire size, because the rear and front tire sizes are supposed to work together with a Certain Ratio in mind.
However, none of them could tell me if there was any room in that ratio for adjustment, however small, to go up or down a tire size.

None said that there was not any room for adjustment, but they all said they did not know.

I I know some of you have mentioned to just not use the 4 wheel drive, but that would not work at all, as I use the front drive wheels all the time for doing loader work. Just would not be practical to not use 4 wheel drive

I still say to figure out what the ratios are for the 2 different OEM sets of tires and confirm that they do indeed use the same gearing on the tractor for those 2 ratios. Anything between those 2 different ratios should be fine.

Good luck.

 

[ovrszd]

My vote is that any tire size change has an affect on wear and/or potential damage. How much is to be determined thru use. No chart will answer that. That is why no dealership is going to tell you that it's alright. If you value your warranty, don't change tire size. Or if you do change tire size, keep that a secret and have the original tires onhand to reinstall before going to the shop for ANY type of service.

RDrancher and I have similar history with this subject. Our history is all based on actual experience and results. Not determined by any chart that might or might not be right. I'm sure we both have played with gear ratios and tire sizes more than most posters in this thread. That doesn't mean we are smarter. It means we are more experienced.

GManBart's charts are pretty. They give you all sorts of mathematical information that might or might not mean anything in practical application. I also doubt that GManBart has ever changed gear ratios or tire sizes in a modified vehicle of any type.

But then maybe I don't know much. Yet, I do know that if you change tire size or even tire air pressure unevenly, you just changed the gear ratio of vehicle in question.

 

[/pine]

My vote is that any tire size change has an affect on wear and/or potential damage. How much is to be determined thru use. No chart will answer that. That is why no dealership is going to tell you that it's alright. If you value your warranty, don't change tire size. Or if you do change tire size, keep that a secret and have the original tires onhand to reinstall before going to the shop for ANY type of service.

RDrancher and I have similar history with this subject. Our history is all based on actual experience and results. Not determined by any chart that might or might not be right. I'm sure we both have played with gear ratios and tire sizes more than most posters in this thread. That doesn't mean we are smarter. It means we are more experienced.

GManBart's charts are pretty. They give you all sorts of mathematical information that might or might not mean anything in practical application. I also doubt that GManBart has ever changed gear ratios or tire sizes in a modified vehicle of any type.

But then maybe I don't know much. Yet, I do know that if you change tire size or even tire air pressure unevenly, you just changed the gear ratio of vehicle in question.

You're right, some of us may not have the experience that you claim...but one thing I do know is that with the above statement (in red) you're inducing fraudulent behavior...

 

[SPYDERLK]

I've spoken with about 10 different Massey dealerships, & I also called AGCO directly ... each place has said not to change the tire size, because the rear and front tire sizes are supposed to work together with a Certain Ratio in mind.
However, none of them could tell me if there was any room in that ratio for adjustment, however small, to go up or down a tire size.

None said that there was not any room for adjustment, but they all said they did not know.

I I know some of you have mentioned to just not use the 4 wheel drive, but that would not work at all, as I use the front drive wheels all the time for doing loader work. Just would not be practical to not use 4 wheel drive

Our L3450 has excessive lead built in. AG tires ...We bought it used and the front tires were worn to nubs. When we replaced them with identical tires it became evident why when I noted that the fronts "scratched" the gravel drive when 4WD was in use. The tractor handles great with this setup and has now about 2200 hrs and the front drive is fine. I would be concerned if we were operating on hard pack but our use is turf/farming. Also of concern would be extreme weighting of the tractor on both ends which would lock the wheels harder to the ground and inhibit the slip needed. The 7520 OTOH has essentially 0 lead and turns rather poorly. The BX1500 has oversized tires front and back. This increased front lead too. The dealer advised against it. The tractor turns great and no trouble over 2000hrs. NOT a loader tractor tho, so no excessive weighting conditions.

,,,Your condition is uniquely yours and you have to weigh the variables as best you can. ... In truth however; a little front lead is good [practically essential], and with robust driveline more is better, but the line delineating too much is very dependent on your machine and use conditions.
larry

 

[GManBart]

I've spoken with about 10 different Massey dealerships, & I also called AGCO directly ... each place has said not to change the tire size, because the rear and front tire sizes are supposed to work together with a Certain Ratio in mind.
However, none of them could tell me if there was any room in that ratio for adjustment, however small, to go up or down a tire size.

None said that there was not any room for adjustment, but they all said they did not know.

I I know some of you have mentioned to just not use the 4 wheel drive, but that would not work at all, as I use the front drive wheels all the time for doing loader work. Just would not be practical to not use 4 wheel drive

That's the critical point...they simply don't know. Why is that? it's possible that it's because the acceptable range is a lot bigger than people think it might be.

The tires wear over time, causing different ratios. You can change tire pressures which causes a different ratio. They offer different size tire rear tires with the same fronts, which makes for a different ratio. It's a safe bet that the ratio on AG tires is different than the one for R4s.

With all of that, if it was SOOOOO critical, why isn't there a section in the manual, or in the dealer's technical guides, that covers acceptable combinations that will keep the front/rear ratio in the suitable range?

Either they don't care, or the acceptable range is broad enough that they don't worry about it.

 

[GManBart]

GManBart's charts are pretty. They give you all sorts of mathematical information that might or might not mean anything in practical application.

I didn't post any "charts", and they aren't mine. I posted a link with the formula, and process, for correctly determining front tire lead, which is what we're talking about. If the front tires turn slightly faster, within a range, there isn't going to be any damage. That doesn't require years of experience to figure out...it just requires some careful measuring, and the correct process.

I also doubt that GManBart has ever changed gear ratios or tire sizes in a modified vehicle of any type.

Why would you assume that? I'm not all that old, but I think the first time I started messing around with that was nearly 30 years ago....don't think math, and ratios have changed much since then.

But then maybe I don't know much. Yet, I do know that if you change tire size or even tire air pressure unevenly, you just changed the gear ratio of vehicle in question.

True, and that's why there has to be an acceptable range of ratios that will work perfectly. If the range was so narrow that it couldn't handle uneven wear, replacing tires unevenly, or changing up or down slightly in size, they would have sections covering the topic in user manuals and shop manuals, but they don't.

 

[ovrszd]

Why would you assume that? I'm not all that old, but I think the first time I started messing around with that was nearly 30 years ago....don't think math, and ratios have changed much since then.

Then in your experiences over the past 30 years what did you find to be the acceptable variance without damage???

 

[RDrancher]

The OP already made his decision, but Gman's going to argue it into the dirt anyway.

Time to unsubscribe from this one.

 

[skyhook]

It's obvious to me that the dealers suggestion is,,
if you want bigger tires, trade your machine in...
Tractors and trucks are a different bread,
first off, tractors don't go that fast,
if your mainly on snow or gravel, i don't see a problem, as long as there's a margin for "slip'.
If your on dry pavement, switch to 2x4 and use the 4x4x only when needed.
But then again, I have no warranty on mine, so i just use common sense.
I mean, as stated earlier, why are they offering two "different" rear sizes for the same machine.
Doesn't make sense, does it, or does it.

 

[Fordman1981]

You're right, some of us may not have the experience that you claim...but one thing I do know is that with the above statement (in red) you're inducing fraudulent behavior...

Here is the way I see it. If you want to change the tires you can. But do not try to hide it or be secret about it. If you have a failure which I doubt you will it is on you. A warranty is a good thing to have but use it as it was intended do not try to get warranty to cover something you did. I'm not saying the OP will try to do this just saying some people have suggested it and it's wrong.