Question for the tractor electricians

   / Question for the tractor electricians #21  
RFB said:
If I have to use relays, do you have a suggested type/model and vendor?

Any basic Bosch-type relay will work. You can get them at any automotive stores. Some carry the molded male multiplug/pigtail, but that can be hard to find. Shielded spade connectors would work fine, too. If you go the relay route, I made a wiring diagram for you below. The new feed line would be wired directly to the battery.

I don't blame you for changing them. Crappy lighting is worse than no lighting...
 

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   / Question for the tractor electricians #22  
If you can mount the relay by one of the lights you can hook the coil wire to whare the lights are hooked now...........Larry
 
   / Question for the tractor electricians
  • Thread Starter
#23  
bjcsc,

Thank you very much for the drawing. Not trying to be intentionally obtuse, but I am trying to understand the legend.

I see the power coming to switches and relays. I see the existing common chassis ground. Is there a typo/missing connection on the rear switch green line?

Also, if (big if) there is an open/unused position in the fuse block, can that be the power source or is that what you meant by "directly to the battery".

Thanks again for you generous help.


mopacman, No options for that.
 
   / Question for the tractor electricians #24  
RFB said:
bjcsc,
If I have to use relays, do you have a suggested type/model and vendor?
Dont worry about relays unless the switches heat up. Dont forget to check heat at connectors too. Actually the best way to judge quality of a contact, be it in a switch or a connector, is to measure the voltage loss thru the junction. Digital voltmeters are great for this. When the circuit is conducting, by just putting one lead on each side of the connection with the Vm on a sensitve scale you get a measurement of the voltage loss in the junction. By comparing this to other connections, switches, lengths of wire in the same circuit you get a good idea of the connection's figure of merit. Much more sensitive than feeling for heat.
larry
 
   / Question for the tractor electricians #25  
RFB said:
Is there a typo/missing connection on the rear switch green line?

Yeah, I forgot to finish drawing it. I fixed it.

RFB said:
Also, if (big if) there is an open/unused position in the fuse block, can that be the power source or is that what you meant by "directly to the battery".
If you get lucky enough to find an opening in the fuse block (it's possible as cab tractors often have lots of electrical doo-dads as options) you could certainly go from there with a 20A fuse. You're right, by "directly to the battery" I was speaking more of path vs. literally (but the latter is often necessary)...
 
   / Question for the tractor electricians #26  
bjcsc, I don't know if the switches are in series or parallel, but it does not matter. In a correctly designed circuit anything down stream from a fuse should be protected by that fuse. As an example, outlets in your house should be on a 15 amp breaker. There may be 12 or 15 outlets, in parallel, on that circuit and they are all rated at 15 amps. Looking at your drawing it looks fine except you still need 15 amp switches. If for example you developer a short to ground on the orange wire coming out of the rear switch, if the switch is not rated for 15amps it will fry before the fuse can protect it.
DRL
 
   / Question for the tractor electricians
  • Thread Starter
#27  
DRL,

That is what I (ineptly) tried to say earlier in the post to another gentleman "I do know what the rating is on all of those components: 14.99 amps. Otherwise it would not be fused at 15 Amps."

I was trying say that if something is fused at a certain ampacity, that it seems reasonable to infer that the components are rated at least to that same figure.
 
   / Question for the tractor electricians #28  
bigdad said:
Somewhat relevant...... what about LED lights for these work lights? I use them in flashlights etc. with great results and low current draw. Anything like that available?

Although LED's are nothing new, the cost at this time for work lights makes them prohibitive due to companies jumping on the LED bandwagon due to their inherent long life, low heat output, low current draw, and perceived "green" attributes. Check out the cost for LED replacements, especially household incandescent lighting and you will see what I mean. TheLEDLight.com is everything LED. Find loose LEDs, LED controls, LED fixtures, LED light bulbs, LED strips, LED flashlights, UV LED flashlights . and =D Welcome to SurplusLED =D and http://www.lc-led.com/ and LED and Fiber Optic Lighting by Wiedamark and led light, fiber optics, rope light and LEDtronics: Energy-Saving LED Light Bulbs and Lamps for All Industries and Super Bright LEDs

Once LED's become mainstream, then I expect the prices to become more realistic.
 
   / Question for the tractor electricians #29  
bjcsc said:
Any basic Bosch-type relay will work. You can get them at any automotive stores. Some carry the molded male multiplug/pigtail, but that can be hard to find. Shielded spade connectors would work fine, too. If you go the relay route, I made a wiring diagram for you below. The new feed line would be wired directly to the battery.

I don't blame you for changing them. Crappy lighting is worse than no lighting...

I buy my automotive electrical supplies at Del-City as they have a good selection of stuff that the average auto parts store doesn't carry. Del City - Wiring Products and Professional Electrical Supplies They have a $25 minimum purchase price.

I have other automotive electrical parts web sites; but I haven't bought anything from them.
 
   / Question for the tractor electricians #30  
DRL said:
bjcsc, I don't know if the switches are in series or parallel, but it does not matter. In a correctly designed circuit anything down stream from a fuse should be protected by that fuse. As an example, outlets in your house should be on a 15 amp breaker. There may be 12 or 15 outlets, in parallel, on that circuit and they are all rated at 15 amps. Looking at your drawing it looks fine except you still need 15 amp switches. If for example you developer a short to ground on the orange wire coming out of the rear switch, if the switch is not rated for 15amps it will fry before the fuse can protect it.

I completely agree with both you and RFB that that is the way it should be. But, we are assuming that Kubota cares about protecting the switch. In some 12V wiring I've dealt with, on some boats I've worked on for example, the switches were rated for the load and not protected by the fuse from a hard ground. They were essentially set up to be "consumable" in the case of a hard ground. In no way do I view that as correct, but that's how it was factory wired. AC outlets have to be rated so the entire load can be carried by any one of them. Kubota would not have the same expectation of one of those switches, unless they're in series. You're correct about a hard ground on the orange wire, but again that diagram assumes the switches are not rated for 15A to begin with and are subject to "frying" from a hard ground as delivered from Kubota.

I think we're all on the same page:
Is it reasonable to assume that the switches are/should be rated for 15A? Yes
Do we know that for sure? No

If I was RFB, I would try to research the switch and see what I could find about it: rating, price, availability. If they're rated for 15A, I'd just replace the fixtures with the new and leave everything else as is. If I couldn't find the rating, but the switches were cheap and easy to get/replace, I'd do the same thing and check them as SPYDERLK mentioned. If they failed the check, then I'd wire them with relays as in my diagram.
 

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