Question on BX series loaders

[jim_wilson]

I have been looking at buying a BX23 and have spent a considerable amount of time comparing it to the Massey GC2310 and the Kioti CK20. After going thru all this I have decided the BX23 is the way I want to go but after looking thru the Kubota BX brochure I have some questions on the different loaders available for the BX23 vs the BX1830 - BX2230. The BX23 supposedly comes with the LA210 loader and the BX2230 takes the LA211 loader. According to the brochure everything is pretty much exactly the same between the two except for the following:
LA211 breakout force = 950 , LA210 breakout force = 845
LA211 digging depth = 4.7 in , LA210 digging depth = 3 in.
LA211 max lift height = 71.3 , LA210 max lift height = 70.1

other than the three specs listed above everything else looks the same. I guess my question is - why would they be different? Seems like it would be harder to use different loaders on what is basically the same tractor. Does anybody know what the differences are? I only noticed because I was reading thru the whole brochure and I noticed the breakout force and digging depth increases on the LA211 because they were much closer to what Massey was listing for the loader available on the GC2310.

 

[Junkman]

Just a guess, but it might be because of the difference in the frame used with the BX1800/2200 and the BX23. Other than that I can't think of any other reason. You would have to have them side by side for comparison purposes to actually figure it out.

 

[jim_wilson]

I thought it might something to do with the frame too but I was under the impression that the BX23 has a beefed up frame over the other BX models. But it's loader has the lower specs. It was curious as to why Kubota would even bother having different loaders on different BX models when they are pretty much same except for the engine hp.

 

[Junkman]

An additional thought came to mind last night ...... being that the frame is modified, there is additional weight on the front tires. For this reason alone, they might have downgraded the loaders lift capacity so the front tires wouldn't be overloaded weigh wise. I was surprised to see that Kubota uses a 4 ply rated front tire when there is a full 8 ply tire available in this size. I have been told that I needed air in the front tires when carrying a load. Checked the pressure and it is as the factory marked specification. I believe that the loader can lift and carry more than the specified weight on the spec sheet from my experiences. Never weighed the load, but the tires do distort in the sidewall with a bucket load of stone/stone dust.

 

[jpr62902]

I'm with ya there, Junkman. I've had heaping loads of wet pea gravel in my FEL (about 6 cu. ft.) and the front tires were pancaking pretty good. I think the Kubota rating isn't so much considering the max lift power of the FEL versus what you should lift with it, in order to be safe. The max lift power on my FEL is probably somewhere around 650 lbs.

I forgot to mention, if you want to dig with the FEL on a BX22/23, go with the ag\turfs. All my turfs do is spin when I try to dig with my FEL.

 

[jim_wilson]

Thanks for the info - having spent last week trying to decide between the BX23, the Massey GC2310 and the Kioti CK20 I have come to the conclusion that the BX23 is the best tractor (for me anyway). I spent some time looking over the specs between the GC2310 and the BX23 and was thinking of the GC mostly because it's publised specs were a little bit better. Then I read the Kubota manual more carefully and noticed the differences between loaders for the BX23 and the 2230 and started to wonder if the tractors might not be more comparable than I originally thought. I was wondering also if the differences between the loaders ( on the breakout specs for instance) might not have something to do with the fact that the BX23 has the backhoe on it and the BX2230 would not. The hydraulic systems are the same but the BX23 has all the extra plumbing of the hoe to deal with. Either way I have made up my mind to get the BX23 but I was just curious. It is good to hear that the tractor seems to perform better than it's specs indicate. Junkman - you indicated that 8 ply tires are available in sizes for this tractor - where did you find this info? I was wondering if I might be better off ordering the tractor with the turf tires and then get second set of rims and some of the 8ply tires for when I doing earthmoving. I plan on using the tractor initially pretty heavily for earthmoving and want a good tire for that.

 

[8561]

Jim - I'm curious what swung you to the Kubota. The reason I ask is that I'm trying to help my brother-in-law with a similar decision between the BX and the GC. Given that I am very satisfied with my Kubota, I am naturally inclined to steer him that way. But the GC intrigues me. Like your original post states, it seems to have at least as much, if not more FEL capacity. I also like the fact it has dual hydraulic arms as opposed to a single, although I've never seen a BX owner post that the single was a problem. It also seems that the 3 point arrangement on the GC might be a little better as I understand it is sized larger (closer to actual cat 1) and the arms fold away as opposed to having to be removed on the BX. It also seems that the GC has increased lift height that will handle a standard post hole digger. Don't get me wrong, I like the BX23, in fact a close friend just bought one, but does anyone else see the GC2310 as possibly a better unit? If not, what are it's disadvantages? Thanks.

 

[jim_wilson]

I spent the last couple of weeks looking seriously at the BX23, the GC2310 and Kioti CK20. I have ruled out the CK20 because I cant seem to find one with the backhoe mounted and I think that it is really more tractor than I need. I have a 3/4 acre suburban lot and I think the smaller size of the BX23/GC2310 would actually be an advantage in my situation. When I compared the GC2310 to the BX23 side by side here is what I found: if you look at the specs on the GC it exceeds the BX in a lot of little ways. The FEL digging depth on the GC is few inches more, the backhoe digs a few inches more. The breakout force on the FEL and specs on the backhoe are better than the BX etc. If you go to Kubota side by side comparo you can see Kubota's side by side comparison - and I just realized something as I read this again - Kubota's specs for the FEL breakout and BH digging forces are not the same in this comparison PDF as they are in the brochure - the specs in the comparison are closer to the Massey than the brochure would make you believe. But here is what made me finally settle on getting the BX23 -

1) the specs are not that much better on the GC to make me go for the GC just on the specs alone.

2) there seem to be way more Kubotas out there in this area - ( I am in MA near the NH border) and the dealer is closer. I think his will be important to me as I use the tractor because if something breaks I will be able to get to the dealer as a short side trip from work instead of having to take a Saturday morning to go up to the nearest Massey dealer.

3) On the whole I liked the Kubota dealers I have visited better than the Massey dealers I visited. One of the Massey dealers in particular had a very used car salesman way about him that turned me off.

4) The prices I have been quoted on the Massey at both dealers was $16,400 vs. $15,900 and below for the BX23. Not enough money to sway me against the Massey but just another factor to consider.

5) The Massey BH bucket has welded on teeth vs the BX23's bolted on teeth. The bucket on the BX23 looks much more substantial and better able to stand up to the rocks surrounded by small amounts of soil that we have here in New England. This was again another maintainence factor I considered - although I have a welder, welding on a broken tooth is more involved and more likely to fail again than just bolting on a new tooth. A friend pointed out that bolted on teeth may come loose but that is what Loctite is for...

6) The seat on the BX23 is MUCH easier to move from driving position to backhoe digging position - try both and you will see. This is not a huge thing but I anticipate using this in a fashion that will mean frequent moving to use the hoe - anything that cuts down the setup time means something to me.

7) resale value - depending on how convincing I am to my significant other I may or may not get to keep the tractor after doing the work I need to get done. If I do decide to sell it I know that the BX23 should fetch me around 75% of what I pay for it after 3-4 years. I don't know what the Massey would fetch me since it has not been on the market as long. The potential resale value is important to me as I buying this tractor to get specific work done and the cost of the tractor vs. renting or paying contractors is what is leading me into buying vs the other two options. On the whole buying the tractor and then reselling gets my work done the cheapest in the long run.

8) I considered the dual cylinder vs single cylinder thing on the FEL's but could not find anybody who could tell me unequivocally either way whether one was better or not. One salesman said the dual cylinders gave more equal pull/push on the bucket when digging, another told me that the single cylinder was less likely to get damaged from stuff falling out of the bucket than the duals were. This was one was a draw for me.

9) The overally impression that I got of the BX23 was that it was put together better with slightly better materials. I noticed numerous paint chips and rust spots on some of the GC2310's I saw - again not a big thing but just one little factor.

After saying all this however I have to say that I just like the way the Massey looks better than the BX23 - to me it looks more like a real tractor vs. the " lawn tractor on steroids" look that some people have called the BX23. If I knew more about tractors in general or the Massey had been out for a couple more years and had the same kind of info base out there as the BX22/BX23 has I have to say I would probably choose the Massey over the Kubota. I started dragging my wife around me to some of these tractor stores as I was trying to narrow down my choice and she made the comment that she thought the Massey looking " cheaper" than the BX23. I honestly don't know if I agree with that but I looked at the details on both and here and there the Kubota does seem to have the advantage on what I perceive as quality. In the end I had to make up my mind one way or the other and chose the Kubota. Now that I keep talking about it though I keep thinking that I really wish the GC didn't have those little things I perceive as being wrong with it - I really wanted that tractor but my practical side is winning out. I have learned from years of buying cars that reliable counts for a lot and the Kubota just looks more though out and reliable to me. If I things had been different though the tractor that I would like to get would be New Holland TZ24DA - but they dont make it with the backhoe. Maybe in a few years when the tractor manufacturers all catch on to how great these sub-compact tractor/loader/backhoe combos are we will start to see tractors similar to the BX23/GC2310 coming from New Holland and John Deere and others. The integrated TLB concept of the BX23 / GC2310 is great and I wish there were more choices.

The dealers I have visited:

Chappel ( Milford NH ) - Kubota nice dealer
MB ( Plaistow NH ) - this is like Kubota heaven - more tractors than I have ever seen before - I thought their prices were high though.

KNOXLAND EQUIPMENT, INC. ( Weare NH ) - Massey dealer - very nice people - a little far away for me.

Northwood Equipment (Northwood, NH ) - Massey dealer - LOTS of equipment on the lot. I did not talk to anybody since I was there late one night. A little far away for me.

Markwell Equipment (Merrimack, NH ) - Massey dealer - not a huge amount of equipment on the lot but they were the closest Massey dealer to me.


This coming week I go out price shopping to see what I can get. I will keep you posted if you want on the progress.

 

[8561]

Jim - thanks for the extensive reply. I agree with most of what you said. I might be able to recommend some additional dealers to visit, but it seems proximity to your house is the overriding factor in your dealer decision. Of the dealers you listed, I believe you will find MB the most expensive (someone has to pay for those fancy showrooms, trucks and all that advertising). I don't think they'll be substantially more than some of the others you mentioned. There are others who will sell it to you for less, but will be further from your house. As long as whoever sells it will deliver, and is willing to come get it if it breaks, I'm not convinced proximity is all that critical. You can always go to the closest dealer to pick up incidental items. By the way, its too bad you didn't speak to someone at Northwood Power, they are the friendliest dealership I have ever been in. Good luck with your BX.

 

[BotaGuy]

"6) The seat on the BX23 is MUCH easier to move from driving position to backhoe digging position - try both and you will see. This is not a huge thing but I anticipate using this in a fashion that will mean frequent moving to use the hoe - anything that cuts down the setup time means something to me."


I can tell that I can quick change positions real quick with the BX23, the seat is slick and I don't even dismount to go front to back.

Sounds like you made a good choice......let us know when you get your new machine.