Buying Advice Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start

[rumwrks]

My yard tractor is a 2017 B2601, great little machine. A friend has a somewhat smaller BX with a backhoe which is also a nice machine. I wouldn't have a problem with either for the size of property you have (slight preference for the heavier B but the BX seriously outperformed my expectations when he bought it as well).

If you're shopping used john Deere's check for recalls (especially in the compact size):

https://www.deere.com/en/parts-and-service/recall-information/

Some of the kubota BX's have a gas cap recall:

https://www.kubotausa.com/service-support/safety/safety-notices

I picked mine up this year used with 360hrs on it with a belly mower, 42" tiller and a 48" brush hog (if buying new a small flail would be probably preferred at this point) for $17k. It needed another $800 of deferred maintenance (new blades on everything, the 200hr service doesn't appear to have been done so I'm doing the full 400hr filter/fluid replacement early, a few bolts were missing or replaced with incorrect parts on the loader, and a few other things). I picked up a $500 set of SSQA pallet forks (super handy). I still need to get a box blade for it... No (or at least minimal) need for a snow blower where I'm at luckily!

 

[California]

I bought a new 5 ft box blade as my first implement along with my 24hp Yanmar, in 2003. That was a mistake. Using it to spread gravel improving my lane, a full load was too heavy and I just spun tires. Turned out that back-dragging with the loader gave me the smooth surface I wanted. I've only used that box blade once since, to carve a new ramp between terraces in my orchard. The front loader could have done that.

Then the 18hp Yanmar I bought about 2010 came with a 4 ft box blade. I've used it a couple of times, for example in that 'stuck' photo above.

I now use an angle back blade for most anything the box blade might do. This is a more versatile implement.

I suggest a 4 ft rotary mower is the first thing to buy. It will shred not only grass and blackberries but also shrubs and saplings, anything you can get the front axle over, - and also shred dry pruning debris up to broomstick diameter. And its bullet proof. I hit rocks occasionally and finally looked expecting to see the blades dinged but no, just a couple of very tiny nicks, over 20+ years of this. I think a flail mower would have costly damage.

Love my rototiller (photo) but I bought it used and I wouldn't pay what a new one costs. My 4 ft disc isn't as useful but it could substitute.

Spike harrow! (photo)This is what works best for me ripping out blackberry rhizomes, after mowing.

It's fun to spend other people's money.

 

[aesanders]

No need to get 5’ implements for your use on 3.8 acres. 4 foot would be plenty.

From what you describe, the subcompacts like the BX Kubota and 1025 Deere would be more than adequate. You could bump up to a slightly taller machine like the B or 2025, but not really necessary.

You mention moving wood. Can you describe this scenario? Is it logs (how big) or firewood. This would be my only thought that a bigger machine would come into play if you wanted to move large logs. Everything else can be handled with ease by the subcompacts and compact mentioned.

 

[WinterDeere]

For your budget:

Tractor and Loader View attachment 1510653

Really nice list! Only thing I'd add would be a ballast box, as that's pretty much always attached to my machine. It's also configured as my tool carrier, which would probably be very useful to the OP, if they're gardening with it:



But am I the only one having trouble figuring out how Bobcat is hitting that price point? I've not shopped new tractors this size, so maybe my barometer is just way off.

One thing to note, if "moving wood", we need to know what that means. This machine has only 600 lb. lift at the loader. That'd be fine for moving some split firewood or mulch, and could probably even do dirt or partials of crushed stone in that small bucket. But you're not going to be chaining onto and lifting logs with that lift capacity. I'd also skip the pallet forks purchase if buying a machine that size, as even empty forks are going to use up more than half the capacity of that loader, before you try to lift anything with them.

It's probably a good machine for the right person, I'm not saying it's not, just be aware that you won't be lifting 1000 lb. logs with it.

5' rear blade for road maintenance and snow removal $500 View attachment 1510650

I'm not sure how much snow the OP gets, but a tractor this small and light might struggle to move snow with a rear blade, unless they plan to load up the tires or add ballast in some other way. Your challenge in pushing snow with these smaller machines is always traction, not horsepower.

Back when I had my Deere 855 MFWD, which was a little bigger and heavier than the Bobcat, I found I could push 6" of snow with a front blade, but really not much more unless it was powder-dry. If I'd loaded all my tires with ballast, then it'd have done better, but I really didn't want to run ballast the rest of the year in that machine. Whenever we'd get bigger snows, I would have to hook up my 3-point snowblower, and that could easily do up to 2 feet on that machine.

Rear blades are a nice cheap solution, but you're either driving backwards, or trying to drive over and then pull snow up against your rear wheels. Also, you're forced to remove any rear ballast box, when using a rear blade, which hurts your traction a lot. It can work as the least-costly solution, but it's not ideal, so just keep that in mind.

Turned out that back-dragging with the loader gave me the smooth surface I wanted.

This works really well if you have a removable tooth bar for your bucket. Install tooth bar to break up and roughly level the material, then remove it to finish.

One other implement to consider, if OP is going to be spreading seed and fertilizer, is a nice small spreader. I use the Herd M10, which has been relatively good to me:

No need to get 5’ implements for your use on 3.8 acres. 4 foot would be plenty.

Agreed. And a much safer and better fit on a tractor this size.

 

[fattylumpkins]

With JD look at a 1023e, 1025r or a 2025r. Pre Covid $20k would have got the job done. 5 years ago I paid $20k for my 2025r out the door but things have gone up. There are lots of used ones out there also.

I think based on the feedback I'm getting, a used one may be the best avenue. I was thinking that since I can afford to purchase something new, I should, but there were clearly flaws in my reasoning. Thank you for providing the models for JD. I was having their website difficult to navigate.

We moved onto the property in 1982. It's 80 acres and classified as open range land. 25 miles due SW of Spokane.

Started with a brand new Ford 1700. 26 engine Hp. Worked just fine from 1982 until 2009. Then I got a new Kubota M6040. I had completed all the smaller projects in those 27 years. I wanted to move on to bigger projects.

You talk about all the blackberries. Are you a Westsider? Anyhow - I had a loader and bucket for gathering up and moving things. And a rear blade for summer and winter driveway maintenance. I have a mile long gravel driveway. With the new Kubota I got a grapple and new HD rear blade.

Welcome to TBN. Best of luck in your ongoing search.

Thank you for breaking down your suggested attachments. I live in SW Washington. While the blackberries are delicious, I would like to try to tame the situation - they're quite painful and hardy guys that seem to grow 3-4 inches a day.

80 acres is an incredible feat! Here I am with my modest allotment, wringing my hands, and you have an immense responsibility beyond me. It must be beautiful What types of things did you do with the tractor? Big and small projects?

T-B-N ARCHIVE: BLACKBERRY CONTROL IN WASHINGTON STATE.

Google Search

Thank you for doing the legwork on the archives, I can imagine it's annoying to have new members post the same question over and over without searching for answers. I'll review all the information you provided - it's almost embarrassing how relevant your posts are. Sorry for clogging the boards, everyone.

 

[Runner]

If I had property that size and the uses you list, I would take that as a perfect opportunity to get a subcompact machine like a JD 1025R (or equivalent from other brand). It is my understanding that they meet the emissions requirement without needing DEF or a catalyst system which would be an advantage in my opinion.

Might have to take projects in smaller chunks than with a larger machine, but that can be kind of fun sometimes. And it doesn't hurt that you could save some money over getting a larger machine/attachments.

As for operation on any kind of slopes, I would see which one "feels" most stable and has best options for widening the stance (like can you reverse the wheels to make wider, add spacers, etc., if necessary) and for adding counter weights both for longitudinal and lateral stability.

What I mean by that last statement is, for example, my compact tractor feels just like a big lawn tractor (stability-wise) because of the wide stance from reversible rear wheels and lots of wheel weights.

Best of luck with your purchase and have fun!

 

[FriendwithTractor]

I would also check out the dealers and see if they offer a "tractor clinic". The large John Deere Dealer near me seems to have one every other month. A great way to try before you buy and get some knowledge directly from the dealer.

Welcome to TBN and happy tractoring!

 

[WinterDeere]

I think based on the feedback I'm getting, a used one may be the best avenue. I was thinking that since I can afford to purchase something new, I should, but there were clearly flaws in my reasoning. Thank you for providing the models for JD. I was having their website difficult to navigate.

Yeah, it's a big site. I find all big company sites to be a challenge to navigate, just too many rabbit holes.

9000 ft. view, you're looking for a "utility tractor", as apposed to an Agricultural (Ag) tractor. More specifically, you're somewhere between a compact utility tractor (CUT) and a sub-compact utility (SCUT) tractor. When you go to the Deere site, click on "compact tractors", as that's where they've thrown all of these CUT's and SCUT's.

The current JD line-up is broken into series', with the first digit of the model number being the product series. So, 1025R is a 1-series, 2035R is a 2-series, and 3033R is a 3-series, etc. The last two digits denote the horsepower.

You can get different engines on the same chassis (eg. 3033R, 3038R, 3046R), with those running ground-engaging implements or big snowblowers usually wanting higher horsepower than those just running a front-end loader (FEL) or mower.

The "R" denotes their premier product line. I honestly don't know why it's "R", someone here probably does, but that's the series you'd want for a removeable FEL. There's also an "E" (Economy) series, but the FEL's are not removable on those, so they're a poor choice for anyone using this machine for mowing or other chores where you may want to remove the loader. The R's allow you to drop the FEL onto kickstands, by simply disconnecting 4-6 quick-connect hoses, and pulling two levers, it's literally a 3-minute job.

I am not a fan of SCUT's in any brand, color, or horsepower, but many others swear by them. My reasoning is that, at least in the past, CUT's were not much more expensive than SCUT's, and SCUT's have all sorts of compatibility issues with different implements from different manufacturers. They're also awful tiny for most loader work. They have their place, but I think most will do much better with a small proper "cat.1" CUT versus an SCUT.

"Cat.1" vs. "Cat.2" refers to standardized 3-point hitch and rear PTO configurations, used by all manufacturers. If you have a cat.1 tractor, you know that you can buy pretty much any cat.1 implement, and it will just fit and work. At least in the past, that was not the case with cat.0, which each manufacturer was implementing differently. Then came the even sillier "cat.1/0" stuff, with no real standards defining any of it. Again, it can all work, but requires greater dilligence in choosing your implements and checking compatibility, if you go the SCUT / cat.0 route.

One last thing, which Deere did just to confuse everyone a little more: There is just one 3-series chassis, and just one 2-series chassis, as you'd expect. But they got a little goofy in the 1-series, making two different chassis, casually called the "little-1" and the "big-1". It's been 5 years since I was shopping new tractors, but I think the 1025R was the "little-1", and the 1038R was the "big-1". I really didn't like the "little-1" at all, but the "big-1" was actually a pretty nice tractor, for someone needing something that size. I don't recall now, but I suspect the "big-1" might be proper cat.1, and the "little-1" might be cat.0.

 

[fattylumpkins]

Thank you everyone, I am overwhelmed by the responses and am so appreciative of the wisdom you're taking the time to share with me.

Wood moving - I just mean split logs, fallen branches - usually like to break them down before moving them currently as storms bring down hemlock branches the size of small trees. Usually use my chain saw to break down larger pieces and carry individually to my burn pile. I have some trees that fall in the winter, and it's just a matter of reducing the size and working through them slowly. I have no intention of moving trees with anything. It's hard work, so a tool to help carry and handle this chore (from everyone's helpful description) would shorten the task from weeks to a couple hours.

...I ended up with a new tractor. If there's any push space in that budget, I think you're going to find you need it; $20k for tractor and a few implements will be a tough find.

This was my thought too - albeit passively, I was looking for a used tractor for a while and the spectrum of "this is very old, practically an antique, and you will have to rebuild it and good luck - $8K" to "this is very new, and fancy, and you have to come get it and immediately give me $18K" was clear with seemingly no in between. I appreciate your candor in your experience, particularly relating to you situation to mine.

So, based on your comments I do basically the same thing here as your goals are. The Zero turns cut as needed and do it quickly. If you need a whole lot brushed at once, I'd suggest you hire it out at first and get it all beat back. Then cutting it with a ZTR that can handle it will be fine. Especially one with power and suspension to do it fast. Ferris makes a full suspension and Stihl also has them as well (Ferris manufactured).

All it takes is money for all of that! Personally I like to buy used stuff.

Thank you so much for the time you spent breaking this down for me -- you clearly know a lot about what you're talking about! The remoteness of my property is a god send and has forced me to have perseverance and acceptance that I have to do most of this on my own (what I'm saying is, it's tough to get people out here to brush hog the blackberry, I basically have to beg anyone to come).

My choices would be a John Deere 2025, or a Kubota LX 2620SU, but both are over $20,000 for a tractor and loader.

Here are a couple of lower priced options:

View attachment 1510644

View attachment 1510642

Thank you for sending this. I didn't realize this was a viable option, people at my church told me to stick to the dealers that were in my area.

Your usage is very much like mine, if you add plowing snow from a long driveway, and seeding, spraying, and fertilizing your lawn....

This is a solid plan and what I needed to hear. I'm going to save this because you captured exactly what I'm looking at and my breakdown was a little disorganized. The feedback I'm getting is that I need to really capture my needs first, think about clearance and incline, and get the basics first - moving onto implements next.

From recent replies, a compact tractor would allow the greatest compatibility with aftermarket attachments.

Also there's some comments about snow. Snow happens where I live but it's not too severe that a snow shovel can't handle on my walkways. I tend to avoid travel during snow, and it only sticks around for a week or so at a time throughout the winter. I hadn't considered implements for dealing with it.

 

[WinterDeere]

Also there's some comments about snow. Snow happens where I live but it's not too severe that a snow shovel can't handle on my walkways. I tend to avoid travel during snow, and it only sticks around for a week or so at a time throughout the winter. I hadn't considered implements for dealing with it.

In that case, you can just use the bucket on the FEL to move snow when you need or want to, no need for a separate plow. I used to do 500 ft. of 12 ft wide driveway + two parking areas with the bucket on my old Deere 855, as long as the snow was only 6" or 8" deep. It wasn't super fast, but it worked just fine.

Oh, one other thing worth mentioning, that hasn't come up, is "quick hitch" and "quick attach", as these can be confusing for any tractor newbie.

"Quick Attach" refers to how implements can be attached to the front-end loader, and there are two systems that are popular in the size you're shopping: JDQA and SSQA. Basically, John Deere uses JDQA, and everyone else uses SSQA. They both work fine, in fact this forum is filled with probably thousands of people arguing over which is better, but that crap only matters to tractor enthusiasts. Don't even let this be a factor in your decision, it's not important in the least, as to which you have, as long as you have one of these methods of QA.

"Quick Hitch" refers to a system of attaching rear implements, which is a little bit newer, and not 100% standardized across all implement manufacturers. It's an enormous help for anyone without the strength to muscle their rotary mower pins onto the link ends of a traditional 3-point, but just be aware that you'll need to check compatibility when you buy your implements, and maybe need a little extra length in the PTO driveshafts.

Don't worry about Quick Hitch for now, it's a simple add-on that you don't need to consider when shopping. I just wanted you to be aware of what these terms meant, as you'll surely see them pop up in your shopping.

But if shopping used tractors, I would advise you to favor machines with JDQA or SSQA. Many older tractors have what's called a "pinned on" bucket, meaning it's not easily removable. This will prevent you from ever changing implements on the loader, and also hurt your resale value down the road.

 

[fattylumpkins]

But if shopping used tractors, I would advise you to favor machines with JDQA or SSQA. Many older tractors have what's called a "pinned on" bucket, meaning it's not easily removable. This will prevent you from ever changing implements on the loader, and also hurt your resale value down the road.

Thank you - another thing I didn't know and now I do! Maneuverability is crucial. I like to LARP as a strong lady, but sometimes I have to accept that I have limits. Accessible changes I can make on my own will be very important to me. Based on what has been shared, keeping the front loader on will likely be the primary configuration yet can't be fixed since I have other uses for the tractor, too.

 

[2manyrocks]

Besides JD and Kubota, Yanmar also makes high quality small, tractors if there is a dealer in your area.

If you could get by without dealer support, a Power Trac PT 425 would be in your price range. These are direct sold by the manufacturer in Virginia, and it would be up to you to perform all service on your own. T8 Class.

One of our members, MossRoad, has posted a few videos to YT about his PT425. Moss Road

 

[WinterDeere]

Besides JD and Kubota, Yanmar also makes high quality small, tractors if there is a dealer in your area.

Good call, and it might be worth checking with your local Deere dealer, as I'd bet they still service Yanmars. They would probably even stock most engine components and filters, even if they don't stock all of the Yanmar chassis components for newer models.

Deere has had a 50-year relationship with Yanmar, and in fact my old Deere 855 or 750 (can't remember which) was made by Yanmar, it was essentially a Yanmar tractor painted in Deere colors. Even my new 3033R has a Yanmar diesel engine, as I believe all Deere CUT's still do.

 

[rumwrks]

Thank you for sending this. I didn't realize this was a viable option, people at my church told me to stick to the dealers that were in my area.

This isn't bad advice though. It's kind of a trade off. There are other brands that are cheaper and sometimes you can get a better deal going further away. BUT if you have a problem a local dealer who is good can also be super useful to have. The "is good" part is of course critical as a crappy unhelpful local dealer is just that. If there are other folks you know in the area who've had good experiences that does count for something.

My other tractor is a larger Tym/Branson model which was 1.5hrs drive but was also 25-30% cheaper than a comparable kubota/deere so I decided the tradeoff was worth it. I'm also moderately comfortable working on my own machines.. which is a consideration in that regard.

Side note on the firewood hauling, you can get some fairly cheap 3 point forklift forks for the back of the tractor (especially shopping used, I see them on craigslist and marketplace for $200+- occasionally) which work really well for lifting pallets of wood especially if you can get some IBC tote cages (basically the IBC totes minus the plastic tank) cheap (there's a place in central OR that sells themfor like $25/ea) they work really nicely for stacking small stuff in and hauling it. One commenter (sorry it's a couple pages back) noted that the FEL forks take up a lot of the weight capacity of these small loaders.. and it's definitely true... If you do get those it's worth shopping for the lightest ones you can get for a small tractor. They are still pretty handy for hauling stuff around IMHO (I use pallets to move stuff out of the back of my truck, for moving plants around the place, and some similar activities which aren't super heavy.. I bought a set that's a bit to heavy for the B because I also wanted to use them on the bigger tractor.. tradeoffs..)

 

[big bubba]

`1st, welcome to this forum. 2nd, you are wise to post her as referenced already by the replies. good luck w/your purchase. don't forget your unseen future projects in deciding the size tractor. all too often (incl myself) we wished we had gone larger.
best of luck

 

[ning]

The "choose a dealer near you" thing is a consideration for repairs.

Moving tractors isn't necessarily the easiest thing for a lot of people, as it requires a trailer and a tow vehicle; obviously the bigger the tractor, the heavier-duty the trailer, and potentially a much heavier-duty tow vehicle.

Choosing a brand with a nearby dealer means that it may be economical to have the dealer pick up & deliver the tractor to you for repairs instead of you investing in a trailer & potentially a truck.

In my case, I ended up with a dealer that's 110 miles one-way. They delivered the new tractor free (this depends entirely on the dealer), and I have a 1-ton pickup and figured I'd eventually buy a flatbed trailer. I still haven't bought the trailer, though I've rented one locally ($100 per day) for an entirely different reason, and my tractor hasn't needed to go back to the dealer once in over 7 years now. Considering that a decent used flatbed for me to haul my tractor (~5000# without the backhoe and loader) would cost $4k+ if craigslist is anything to go by, that's 40 rentals to pay for a trailer... and given that I haven't needed my tractor serviced by the dealer, I suspect I won't be buying a trailer for a while.

YMMV, but it's quite possible that a quality tractor won't need dealer servicing at all, assuming you don't mind performing filter & fluid changes (there's a lot of hydraulic fluid - which is very much like motor oil, except it doesn't turn black; and then there's also motor oil, much less of it, and it will turn black being in a diesel motor). Considering the costs and bother of transport, and amount of time a dealer may take to get around to doing a fluid change for you, I'd advise getting used to the idea of dealing with the oils myself; it doesn't happen that often and it's not difficult, though it can be messy.

Also, you need to grease the tractor pretty often. More often than I do, in fact; I need to do it more often...

btw Many auto parts stores accept used motor oil (which includes the hydraulic fluid) for recycling.

Someone above mentioned TYM; TYM bought my tractor's maker (Branson) in the last few years. I strongly encourage you to consider a not-too-nearby dealer of a different brand as well; I'm still super glad I got the tractor I did and honestly don't see the near-religious zeal some have for Kubotas. They're pretty much all the same at this point.

 

[2manyrocks]

Internal seal on the bull pinion shaft began leaking into the brakes on my Mahindra around 700 hours. Only two dealers near me. One was further away over the mountain. The other that sold it to me was always too busy to come to the phone to discuss the repair and didn't return my calls even after I spoke with the owner of the dealership. Independent tractor mechanics are rare in my area. So I traded the Mahindra at a loss for a Kubota.

The Power Trac PT 425 uses a 25hp gas Kohler v twin engine which is pretty reliable and can be owner maintained. The rest of the machine is essentially three hydraulic pumps, gear motors, hydraulic cylinders and hoses. It can be maintained by someone with mechanic skills, but it's not like buying a Kubota BX from a good local dealer and having them available to do the maintenance if that's what you prefer.

If you buy something that only the dealer can service, please make sure the dealer service department is good before you buy.

Also recommend that you use the search tool on this site to search for specific tractor models you are considering. You can often find a lot of relevant information that will help you make your decision.

 

[airbiscuit]

Have some fun. Start going to local dealers, look around, and try some out.

 

[California]

Sorry for clogging the boards, everyone.

You're not clogging anything. Keep the questions coming!

We love to debate the various 'best choices', and especially love spending others' money vicariously.

Also - many of us arrived here same as you - 'I want to buy my first tractor, what should I buy?" For me it was inheriting the orchard in Y2K that grandpa and then Dad had used as a summer home - no tractor - with the real apple production contracted to a neighbor. (which I have continued). I found a 20 year old used tractor that was cheap because it needed numerous minor repairs to remedy severe neglect. I asked all the beginner questions here, and learned this Yanmar was premium quality, reputed to be indestructible with normal maintenance. I decided my auto maintenance experience was sufficient to take the gamble, and bought it and spent a month doing the repairs that members here suggested. Turns out it was a good choice. 20 year later it runs fine.

I don't mind sharing what I've learned since.

 

[California]

Wood moving - I just mean split logs, fallen branches - usually like to break them down before moving them

Like this?

Front load is chained so it won't fall out.

Rear is a platform the size of a single bed (the source for its steel perimeter) mounted on a pallet, carried on 3-point pallet forks.

And note the rear wheel weights, they are sufficient for most loads in the front bucket.