Questions about "The Thumb" for a loader

[ragkar]

marveltone's pictures are impressive.
and cttractor, if you get one I sure would like to see a thread on your installation as I'm running a jd2320 also.

 

[cttractor]

cttractor, if you get one I sure would like to see a thread on your installation as I'm running a jd2320 also.

Hi Ragkar! Yes, I will definitely post photos and a narrative of my installation if I purchase the thumb or some equivalent product.

I have a question for you. Your signature line mentions that you have the 46BH. Please tell me how you like it and what you're actually able to do with it. Because I'm used to using full size backhoes and excavators when I need to dig, I'm concerned about what the smaller hoes can actually do. I'm tiring of borrowing machines from friends and am also trying to find a good deal on a larger machine (JD 410 Ford 555, etc.) while I wait for the 270 to become available for evaluation. Can the 46 on our size machine do meaningful work without dragging the machine toward every stump and large rock like I'm concerned about? Thanks!

 

[ragkar]

cttractor That's a difficult question to answer without knowing just how big your stumps and boulders are. As I recall, basalt and granite weighs about 170 pounds per cubic foot. If my boulder was bigger than two cubic feet I would be looking at a difficult situation using my jd2320 and 46bh.

Four years ago a microburst took down some substantial trees on my property. I've yet to dig out one that is two feet at the base. On the other hand, I had one 18 inches across that I dug out by digging a trench all around it and then cracking the tap root. Pulling that 800 pound beast out of the hole (you have to take the dirt and trapped rocks too) was a challenge until I got mad and just hooked it with the bh and drove forwards.

The 46bh new is about $6000. Last year my neighbor was selling his Case 580K and I bought it for $7000. That tractor was high time and a lot didn't work (lights, differential lock etc) but it was functional and 43 hp compared to the jd2320's 23 hp. But it's big and difficult to maneuver. I much prefer using the jd when I can.

I have a York rake, ballast box, and trailer hitch that goes on the back of the jd. If I have the bh on there, then I can't use them. So I try to leave the jd bh off and use the case bh when I need it.

Another consideration is that the case weighs lots more than the jd even with the 46bh. I worry about sinking into soft ground.

 

[cttractor]

One of the machines I normally use (Ford 555) is about 14,000 pounds. A couple of years ago, I pulled a large red oak stump from a 52" diameter tree at the base and its nine feet in diameter root mass. It went down about five feet and had grown around some large boulders. It took me several hours to break some of it out so I could get it out of the ground. The root mass itself was too heavy to pick up entirely with the hoe or the loader of that machine and I eventually just pushed it with the loader into the forested part of my property. I should have borrowed a larger machine or an excavator. Unfortunately, I have a number of stumps in the 24" - 48" range and I can't imagine doing much with a 46 or 270 hoe -- that's why I asked. Of course, we do learn over time how to use a machine too small for a job on a big rock or stump, but you need to build ramps and it takes more time. And unless you've got a 30,000 - 60,000 pound excavator, there's always a bigger rock or stump to deal with somewhere. Of course, I've hired someone and their machine when I need something that big.

Conversely, you make a good point about weight and I do have lots more small work projects that would tear up and compact the ground much less with a smaller hoe like you have. It's impressive that a small hoe could pull an 800 pound stump. Perhaps I'll get one anyway when the 270 comes out.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[nickel plate]

I'm not going to go in to which FEL grapple I selected for my tractor but I do want to give you a suggestion as to how to figure out a grapple that will fit your bucket.
1. Determine if you want the grapple to curl into the bucket (under bite) or curl over the cutting edge of the bucket (over bite).
2. Contact the grapple manufacture(s) and send them a full sized drawing of your FEL bucket's side/end plate. They should be able to autocad that drawing, design the grapple teeth length and cylinder stroke length then archive/catalog it for future similar tractor FEL sales down the road. If they balk and place it back on you, walk away.
I don't think they can determine if when fully open it will interfere with your grille guard.
If you are having even the most remote thought of purchasing a toothbar, work it in now as the TB and G need to mesh without any interference.
Your going to be dropping upwards of two grand to complete the project so try to get it right the first time-others here can attest to fit up issues.

 

[ragkar]

My Case might be 12-16,000 pounds and I wouldn't want to drive it on my sand pile (sewage) or lawn. I'm thinking of putting a smaller bucket, maybe 12 inch, on the 46h. That would be great for trenching.

But the jd is a Cadillac compared to the Case.

Getting back on topic - I sure envy that thumb's ability to pick up brush piles and small to medium stumps. Now if there were pictures of the thumb being used to scoop small boulders into the fel, I'd be drooling.

I'm thinking that to use the thumb, you'd have to get the jd 3rd hydraulic kit. Also you'd need a sub-console for the control valves.

Last thought, tonight the task was to scoop up two largish stumps with their spiderweb of roots. I couldn't get it in the fel bucket -it would just push it. So I put the forks on. Then it was easy. If you get forks there's better buys than the jd forks and they are lighter too.

 

[Marveltone]

I'm thinking that to use the thumb, you'd have to get the jd 3rd hydraulic kit. Also you'd need a sub-console for the control valves.

Although the JD 3rd hydraulic kit would look real slick, there are certainly other options to consider. I bought a Prince valve assembly on flea-bay and had the local Farmers Union shop make the hoses. Saved quite a few dollars over a fancier, OEM look product or a fancy, multi-function joystick. In the end, both work. I'm just cheap!

Joe

 

[cttractor]

I'm not going to go in to which FEL grapple I selected for my tractor but I do want to give you a suggestion as to how to figure out a grapple that will fit your bucket.
1. Determine if you want the grapple to curl into the bucket (under bite) or curl over the cutting edge of the bucket (over bite).
2. Contact the grapple manufacture(s) and send them a full sized drawing of your FEL bucket's side/end plate. They should be able to autocad that drawing, design the grapple teeth length and cylinder stroke length then archive/catalog it for future similar tractor FEL sales down the road. If they balk and place it back on you, walk away.
I don't think they can determine if when fully open it will interfere with your grille guard.
If you are having even the most remote thought of purchasing a toothbar, work it in now as the TB and G need to mesh without any interference.
Your going to be dropping upwards of two grand to complete the project so try to get it right the first time-others here can attest to fit up issues.

I agree with your recommendation of planning the thumb with the tooth bar if the operator is going to get both. A poster on another thread about whether one should get a BH or not recently made the observation that most people he'd seen with a tooth bar didn't have BHs, and those with them usually didn't have tooth bars. After thinking about that, I'm having to agree. The only time I've ever wished for a tooth bar was because of hard ground when I didn't have a BH available. I, fortunately, do have access to some and am also in the process of getting one for myself, so I don't think I'll need the tooth bar. But your recommendation to plan both together if getting one strikes me as an astute observation -- thank you!

 

[cttractor]

Now if there were pictures of the thumb being used to scoop small boulders into the fel, I'd be drooling.

I've seen a thumb pull large rocks into an FEL -- it's slick!

I'm thinking that to use the thumb, you'd have to get the jd 3rd hydraulic kit. Also you'd need a sub-console for the control valves.

For this application, I think the best approach is to use an electric-controlled diverter so the FEL bucket curl/dump functions change to thumb open/close functions when holding the diverter button down.

Last thought, tonight the task was to scoop up two largish stumps with their spiderweb of roots. I couldn't get it in the fel bucket -it would just push it. So I put the forks on. Then it was easy. If you get forks there's better buys than the jd forks and they are lighter too.

I already have QA forks for the loader and love them for certain tasks. I don't get many palletized loads here, though I do get a few. But when I've needed to pick up a rock too large for the FEL bucket or long logs, they've been great to have. I've even vacillated between putting the thumb on the FEL bucket, on the forks, or getting one for each. At the moment, I'm leaning more toward getting a thumb for the FEL, one for the BH when I get it, and leaving the forks the way they are.

 

[cttractor]

Although the JD 3rd hydraulic kit would look real slick, there are certainly other options to consider. I bought a Prince valve assembly on flea-bay and had the local Farmers Union shop make the hoses. Saved quite a few dollars over a fancier, OEM look product or a fancy, multi-function joystick. In the end, both work. I'm just cheap!

Joe

I, too, hate to spend more than I need to, but what I hate even more is to not have the functionality that I want when I'm solving a problem. So for me, I'm going with the electric-controlled diverter mentioned above rather than separate spool valves, even though it costs more. I also like a clean looking installation and am willing to spend extra dollars to get that, also. That said, I like a bargain as much as anyone as long as I can also have these other qualities. When I'm not happy with a product, no savings of dollars makes me feel any better. At least for me, the old saying (paraphrased) says it all:

"The sour taste of dissatisfaction with a product lasts long after the sweet smell of low price has faded away..."