Questions about Whole House Water Filtration Systems

[Ibrahim]

Hey Everyone!

My house is currently getting city water and it's definitely not water I want to drink. We had a salesman come out from RainSoft to test our water and pitch us their system. My wife and I were really impressed with their presentation and it highlighted some pretty bad numbers for our water.

The TDS was at 250
The Chlorine was 2-3
Hardness was a 12
Precipitation was 45%

The system they pitched was around $7,300 installed. That's more than we want to spend, so I started researching other options.

There are a LOT of options out there, and so I figured I'd ask here in case some people have gone through the process already and have some advice.

They were pitching us a filter, water conditioner, and then under the sink RO system.

The goal for us is to reduce that hardness. It's leaving scale marks and damaging our appliances so this is the #1 goal of this filtration system.

We also want to reduce/remove the chlorine and lower the rest in general. I'm not sold on the superiority of water conditioners vs softeners, and we still would use an RO filter for drinking/cooking water if necessary.

The system I was looking at most recently was: Water Filter and Salt Based Water Softener System - SpringWell Water Filtration Systems

In terms of water flow it sounds good, also looks like it'll do all the things I wanted it to do, and it's under $2000 for the unit (I'm not sure if I can do the install or will hire a plumber, but I'm willing to pay a pro to make sure it's done right.)

Am I missing anything about this project? Any concerns or issues that you've run into? Better brands or systems?

Thanks,
Ibrahim

 

[monster318]

I would like to know how your determining your numbers are bad? If your listening to your salesmen, remember he wants to sell you his system.
I am going to assume that your TDS, & Hardness numbers were measured in PPM (parts per million) or mg/L (milligrams per liter). PPM & mg/L are equal to each other. If this is true, your hardness is 12ppm, which is not hard at all, that is very much so on the soft side. Very soft water can also attack interior plumbing and appliances such as iron or copper. Putting a softener on your home would not correct this problem, in fact only make it worse. Your TDS is alittle on the high side depending on what source its coming from. At our water treatment facility, we have two commercial wells on site and also take in surface water from a near by creek. Both of our wells have a TDS of around 200 which is considered to be on the normal side for ground water vs our surface water that has a TDS of around 100. A precipitation test is obsolete these days because of how inaccurate results usually were because of the amount of variables in the water tested. The only people still using precipitation tests are water treatment system salesmen as a visual test to convince customers that their water was bad and that they needed equipment to improve the quality, although the minerals precipitated are harmless. You did not list what the pH or alkalinity of the tested water was? Low pH water will also attack household plumbing. Alkalinity is the waters ability to resist pH changes. If you want to eliminate the chlorine taste install a whole house carbon filter, but when purchasing make sure you pay attention to the capacity of the filter. Most filters are only rated for so many gallons or months and after that it will begin to re release the taste back into the water.

Did they do a salinity (salt) test on your water? If there is a high amount of salinity in the water entering your home its going to taste bad and attack everything metal it touches no matter how perfect your TDS, pH, or hardness is. I mentioned this last cause this is highly unlikely to have salt water since its coming from a treatment facility.

AJ
Licensed Water Treatment operator.

 

[PILOON]

I once knew a water product sales rep that was very upfront with me.
He was a member of some club/assoc that we both belonged to.

He mentioned tricks of his trade that were somewhat less than ethical.
One example was that he knew which days/times each borough did the chlorine washes/rinses so that his tests would always show the owner the benefit of his system to remove the taste, same with others that did backwashes which would leave some residual sediment in the water.

Those guys are commission reps and closely related to used car salespeople.

 

[YanmarFever]

Ibrahim,
I have water that we do not drink also. I bought a whole house charcoal filter system and installed it myself, which took care of almost all of the problem, easy install (youtube it)
It was under 300 bucks.
Then I bought a water softener and had a plumber install what i didnt finish which cured all the problems with scale and smell. I think I spent under 2500 dollars and I have good water.
I had the same high prices quoted from the water stealers so I sorta did it myself and saved a bundle.
Good luck..

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Listen to Monster, he knows what he is talking about. Last thing you want to do is have a salesman responsible for testing. Go to a water testing company that does not sell equipment for an independent test. You need to determine what is causing the equipment fouling problem and then solve for that and they can advise you on that.

Our water company provides water that has 2 times more TDS than yours and they are within state limits. Solution to TDS is a whole house sock filter and change yearly. We don't like chlorine taste so I installed both a sock filter and a carbon filter. Always put a sock filter ahead of the carbon one as it will last longer on cleaner water.

Ron

 

[Ibrahim]

Oh yeah, the salesman definitely seemed sure of his numbers and whatnot. But we're definitely not using them. I'll definitely look into an independent company. Thanks!

 

[monster318]

Oh yeah, the salesman definitely seemed sure of his numbers and whatnot. But we're definitely not using them. I'll definitely look into an independent company. Thanks!

Have you tried calling your water company and asking them what the physical characteristics of their water is leaving their treatment facility? They report it to the state monthly and its right to know information for you as their customer. They may even volunteer to come to your home and take a sample of your tap water to test it's characteristics and call you with the results. We do this for our customers as a courtesy. No need to pay a middle man.
Also ask them for a copy of their consumer confidence report; this will have all the minerals and toxins (if any) listed and what their maximum containment levels are for the in their water.

There is a lot of misinformation out there about public water supply tap water giving it a bad name. When in reality most of the time they have to follow stricter guidelines than bottled water companies do. There is a few bottled water companies out there that I wont name, when the characteristics of there water is tested, they have a high TDS, conductivity & hardness and low pH.

 

[Ibrahim]

It's the City and they should have the info for me. I'll check!

The hardness is a real concern especially the scaling. We redid the downstairs bathroom, put in dark-colored faucets, and my wife is not happy to have some grey/white water stains already! And I don't want to clean regularly with CLR! lol.

 

[TnAndy]

Good rule of thumb is anything priced by an in-home salesman can be bought for 1/3-1/2 elsewhere.

 

[Doofy]

Dont be suckered by high pressure salesmen. Do get the facts from your water supplier or testing from an independent Lab.

 

[andrewjp]

I recommend iSpring WGB21B, this whole house water filter works great, installs easily, no leaks. I am very surprised about the difference of water, can drink our water now! My toilet and shower are no longer yellow!

 

[TheMan419]

Softener is a must have where we are. The 12 for hardness what scale? Grains is how they measure it here usually. 12 would be pretty hard.

 

[geteh]

I would like to know how your determining your numbers are bad? If your listening to your salesmen, remember he wants to sell you his system.
I am going to assume that your TDS, & Hardness numbers were measured in PPM (parts per million) or mg/L (milligrams per liter). PPM & mg/L are equal to each other. If this is true, your hardness is 12ppm, which is not hard at all, that is very much so on the soft side. Very soft water can also attack interior plumbing and appliances such as iron or copper. Putting a softener on your home would not correct this problem, in fact only make it worse. Your TDS is alittle on the high side depending on what source its coming from. At our water treatment facility, we have two commercial wells on site and also take in surface water from a near by creek. Both of our wells have a TDS of around 200 which is considered to be on the normal side for ground water vs our surface water that has a TDS of around 100. A precipitation test is obsolete these days because of how inaccurate results usually were because of the amount of variables in the water tested. The only people still using precipitation tests are water treatment system salesmen as a visual test to convince customers that their water was bad and that they needed equipment to improve the quality, although the minerals precipitated are harmless. You did not list what the pH or alkalinity of the tested water was? Low pH water will also attack household plumbing. Alkalinity is the waters ability to resist pH changes. If you want to eliminate the chlorine taste install a whole house carbon filter, but when purchasing make sure you pay attention to the capacity of the filter. Most filters are only rated for so many gallons or months and after that it will begin to re release the taste back into the water.

Did they do a salinity (salt) test on your water from Steve's Plumbing & A/C? If there is a high amount of salinity in the water entering your home its going to taste bad and attack everything metal it touches no matter how perfect your TDS, pH, or hardness is. I mentioned this last cause this is highly unlikely to have salt water since its coming from a treatment facility.

AJ
Licensed Water Treatment operator.

I’m not afraid to drink our tap water but nobody in my house does regularly. We’ve got a Brita in the refrigerator which is enough for everyone to be happy with the water quality.

We have a non-functional instant-hot in the granite counter that I want to remove AND an icemaker accross the kitchen (attached to a sketchy needle valve). I’m thinking that I can probably install a single water filtration device (activated carbon, or maybe Reverse Osmosis) that can feed both a new filtered water tap (replacing broken instant hot) and the icemaker by running hose through the basement to the icemaker. This will double as keeping the icemaker filter fresh too since we will drink the water regularly.

I’m not looking to spend a fortune on this, and especially don’t want to spend too much on filters every year.

This will be my first time ever choosing a water filtration setup, and I’m open to all options.

I also look forward to not worrying about water spilled, fridge door held open, and an empty Brita that I find myself filling multiple times every day.

 

[Jstpssng]

^^^
The poster you are asking hasn't been here in almost 21/2 years, so I doubt you will get a response.

 

[oosik]

My water comes from a spring. Been in use since 1892. First by the homesteader and now me.

This spring flows at 350 gpm this time of year. Caused a little sediment but not really objectionable.

I'm most fortunate - the water is of superior quality and never has objectionable tastes or odor.

 

[Ibrahim]

I'm pretty happy with the filtration system I have. But I get city water that I'm happy to filter out whatever they put in it. I also have a Reverse Osmosis next to my kitchen tap for drinking. I miss having well water, but those are the breaks living in the suburbs instead of out in the country.

 

[ponytug]

It’s starting to come out that here on Long Island, where I live, there are some growing concerns about water quality. Apparently, our area has higher-than-average levels of 1,4-dioxane and possibly PFAS. From what I’ve read, 1,4 dioxane isn’t easily filtered out by standard home systems, and even reverse osmosis may only remove about half of it. Has anyone here installed a system that actually works? Most setups I’ve seen are point-of-use filters for sinks, which makes sense since I wouldn’t want to waste filtered water on washing cars or watering the lawn. But what about vegetable gardens? Is that safe? Any insights?

You might add your location in your profile. It helps folks.

Good for you for knowing what's what with your water!

I'm not a water professional, but my two cents on vegetable gardens on most of Long Island would be I would think about not doing it, given all of the water quality issues (plus septic contamination in many parts).

Getting rid of PFAS is lots of charcoal filters changed regularly, but the size and contact time is going to vary by what the contaminant load is. 1,4-dioxane (or do you have TCDD?) is probably UVC/ozone, followed by charcoal filtration, but different parts of Long Island have very different water issues, and it would pay to know what you are up against. None of that is exactly cheap, and some of it requires more than a little space as well.

All the best,

Peter

 

[HawkinsHollow]

I have an ISpring whole house filter. I need to replace my filters about yearly and that time is coming up so I have been looking around. It is a 3 stage system where you can get different filter combinations. I have noticed there is a PFAS filter you can buy, claims it removes 99.9% of PFAS chemicals. The systems are very reasonable around $450.

 

[bdhsfz6]

It’s starting to come out that here on Long Island, where I live, there are some growing concerns about water quality. Apparently, our area has higher-than-average levels of 1,4-dioxane and possibly PFAS. From what I’ve read, 1,4 dioxane isn’t easily filtered out by standard home systems, and even reverse osmosis may only remove about half of it. Has anyone here installed a system that actually works? Most setups I’ve seen are point-of-use filters for sinks, which makes sense since I wouldn’t want to waste filtered water on washing cars or watering the lawn. But what about vegetable gardens? Is that safe? Any insights?

When I drilled my well in 1979, the water was tested and found to be within EPA drinking water standards. A simple A.O. Smith whole house particulate filter was all that was needed. In the last decade or so, an abnormally high number of people living in the valley here developed cancer. No cause has been found but some suspect the well water in the area.

As a result, we had our well water professionally tested for 142 of the most common contaminants, including radon dioxane and PFAS. I won't go into all the details and the results were within EPA standards but just barely. The arsenic and bacteria levels were marginal but the dioxane and PFAS were well within limits. As a result, we installed a Waterdrop reverse osmosis system for drinking & cooking water only. No need to put in a whole house system. Out of an abundance of caution, we also installed a rain water collection system for the vegetable garden.

A subsequent test of the filtered water showed a large drop in contaminants with some eliminated completely. The 1,4-dioxane level however did not drop significantly. The lab suggested we use a granulated carbon filter to further remove the dioxane. In our case though, the levels weren't high enough to warrant the extra filtration.

If you're really concerned about the quality of your water, consider getting it tested by a reputable lab.

 

[lman]

We've been here 28 years and there has never been any type of filter used for the well water. The water is clear and tastes good coming straight out of the well. The original well pump is about 32 years old with no problems. The water is a little hard so we have always used a softener. All of the water that we drink comes out of the well.