quick educate me on emissions please

[chopped]

Could someone educate me as to the emissions on the newer tractors/ I am reluctant to purchase a new tractor. with the fears of this and of a computer they may have.Am I overthinking this? I buy new and keep the tractors for 25 to 30 years and dont want to regret it because of these systems thanks..

 

[RNeumann]

EPA requires lower emissions for engines over 25hp. Most manufactures achieve this with a DPF or diesel particulate filter. The filter typically has some rare metals that not only filter but help to clean the exhaust. Another less common option is DEF which is diesel exhaust fluid that is injected to help lower emissions. The third option, and the one Mahindra brags about, is a catalytic converter. The advantage of the converter over the DEF is the DEF requires a regen every so often. The regen requires higher than idle RPM and injects fuel into the exhaust to heat the exhaust and burn off/clean the DPF. The regen lasts about 20'. Time will tell which is better.....

If you are looking at new tractors old posts would have you avoid new because of early problems with the conversion. You also see companies like Kubota and others offer tractors right at the 25hp mark to avoid the emission requirements. The emissions equipment adds a few thousand to the cost.

Now it seams most have accepted the new reality and are willing to purchase the right machine for them even if that means it has emissions.

Another change that has come with the emissions requirements is computer controlled engines. No opinion offered as you are asking for information at this time.

If you are planning to avoid the emissions and buy a pre emissions used tractor good luck! I was willing to travel a few thousand miles and looked nearly daily for 9 months. Lots of folks are thinking the same thing! The machines I found were very close in price (with the cost of transport) to new ones or hammered.

 

[chopped]

EPA requires lower emissions for engines over 25hp. Most manufactures achieve this with a DPF or diesel particulate filter. The filter typically has some rare metals that not only filter but help to clean the exhaust. Another less common option is DEF which is diesel exhaust fluid that is injected to help lower emissions. The third option, and the one Mahindra brags about, is a catalytic converter. The advantage of the converter over the DEF is the DEF requires a regen every so often. The regen requires higher than idle RPM and injects fuel into the exhaust to heat the exhaust and burn off/clean the DPF. The regen lasts about 20'. Time will tell which is better.....

If you are looking at new tractors old posts would have you avoid new because of early problems with the conversion. You also see companies like Kubota and others offer tractors right at the 25hp mark to avoid the emission requirements. The emissions equipment adds a few thousand to the cost.

Now it seams most have accepted the new reality and are willing to purchase the right machine for them even if that means it has emissions.

Another change that has come with the emissions requirements is computer controlled engines. No opinion offered as you are asking for information at this time.

If you are planning to avoid the emissions and buy a pre emissions used tractor good luck! I was willing to travel a few thousand miles and looked nearly daily for 9 months. Lots of folks are thinking the same thing! The machines I found were very close in price (with the cost of transport) to new ones or hammered.

Thank you very much for explaining this..Its making my 'antique' tractor worth more.I just think its ridiculous to require this on small tractors and the fact I only burn about 30 or 40 gallons a year. but thanks for the Info..

 

[IH782]

I believe it is 30hp, as the Kubota 2650 is 26.5 HP and others have some around 27-28, all they have a PVC system. The Kubota 2650 has no computer control on the engine. We went with Mahindra 2555 because of no DPF and so far so good, its a great tractor.

 

[RNeumann]

The EPA used KW instead of HP for the standard. It's actually above 25.4794 HP or 19 KW

https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P100OA05.pdf

 

[fried1765]

EPA requires lower emissions for engines over 25hp. Most manufactures achieve this with a DPF or diesel particulate filter. The filter typically has some rare metals that not only filter but help to clean the exhaust. Another less common option is DEF which is diesel exhaust fluid that is injected to help lower emissions. The third option, and the one Mahindra brags about, is a catalytic converter. The advantage of the converter over the DEF is the DEF requires a regen every so often. The regen requires higher than idle RPM and injects fuel into the exhaust to heat the exhaust and burn off/clean the DPF. The regen lasts about 20'. Time will tell which is better.....

If you are looking at new tractors old posts would have you avoid new because of early problems with the conversion. You also see companies like Kubota and others offer tractors right at the 25hp mark to avoid the emission requirements. The emissions equipment adds a few thousand to the cost.

Now it seams most have accepted the new reality and are willing to purchase the right machine for them even if that means it has emissions.

Another change that has come with the emissions requirements is computer controlled engines. No opinion offered as you are asking for information at this time.

If you are planning to avoid the emissions and buy a pre emissions used tractor good luck! I was willing to travel a few thousand miles and looked nearly daily for 9 months. Lots of folks are thinking the same thing! The machines I found were very close in price (with the cost of transport) to new ones or hammered.

Almost 2 years ago I bought a 1988 Ford 1920 FEL 4x4 (shuttle shift) from a Craigslist advertisement.
Tractor was in very good condition, but not excellent, with 1056 hours. It did cost me $1250 to have it delivered 420 miles.
I rebuilt the 3pt hitch (sloppy), replaced clutch (it did not need a clutch, but I WANTED to do it), new seat, new water pump, thermostat, & hoses, new battery, all fresh fluids, and new filters, adjusted valves, had bucket rebuilt (much stronger), new rear rims & tires w/tubes, (CaCl removed, WWF now!), sheet metal sandblasted or sanded, entire tractor primed and painted.
The tractor looks like new, and runs like new.
No DEF, no plastic parts, no catalytic converter, no electronic controlled anything.
I have less than 2/3 total dollars invested as compared to a new 32HP 4x4 FEL, but ..... most important .....
I have a great little 32HP 4x4 FEL tractor that is simple & fool proof, and will likely NEVER need to see a dealer!

 

[IH782]

The EPA used KW instead of HP for the standard. It's actually above 25.4794 HP or 19 KW

https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P100OA05.pdf

It doesn't say anywhere in the document where the cutoff is.

 

[s219]

On all the brands I have looked at, 26HP and down are OK. Anything above 26HP gets the additional emissions controls. There may be some rounding as to how companies rate their models, but "26" seems to be the common number.

There is a lot of confusion about Tier 4, even from salesmen. Most tractors under 75HP have been Tier 4 "interim" since 2008 or so. The ones 26HP and under automatically meet Tier 4 "final" (went into effect in 2014/2015). It's the tractors over 26HP that need the extra emissions controls to meet Tier 4 final.

So, Tier 4 "interim" tractors under 75HP won't have emissions controls. Tier 4 "final" tractors 26HP and under won't have emissions controls. That leaves Tier 4 "final" tractors over 26HP as the only ones that get the emissions controls.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

It doesn't say anywhere in the document where the cutoff is.

There is no cut off, all engines have emission limits. The limits for engines of different outputs is given in the document. The manufacturers are able to determine how they choose to meet the requirements. If they can meet the limits without any extra emission controls, thats fine....

 

[IH782]

There is no cut off, all engines have emission limits. The limits for engines of different outputs is given in the document. The manufacturers are able to determine how they choose to meet the requirements. If they can meet the limits without any extra emission controls, thats fine....

Got it.

 

[RNeumann]

It doesn't say anywhere in the document where the cutoff is.

Page 1 third column. It's for engines between 19 and 37kw. We are now in "Tier 4" which occurred in or about 2013.

Funny to read the posts from the "anti computer controlled" folks. As stated in my first post I'm staying out of that......at least for now

 

[LostMy65]

I'm new here. I'm not sure what members here prefer, but in some forums people want you to start a new thread and not piggy back off of an older related one. I hope you guys prefer me to just post it here in this related thread.
My question:
Roughly how much cost does it add to the purchase price when tractors go over 26HP and need the extra emissions controls?

 

[chim]

I'm new here. I'm not sure what members here prefer, but in some forums people want you to start a new thread and not piggy back off of an older related one. I hope you guys prefer me to just post it here in this related thread.
My question:
Roughly how much cost does it add to the purchase price when tractors go over 26HP and need the extra emissions controls?

In most cases you aren't just buying more horses. You're also getting more weight, and usually a bit more lift capability at one or both ends. Below are examples from one dealer that would show the cost difference for stepping over the threshold and needing a DPF. I assume since both prices are from one dealer, the difference in price would be at least somewhat useful in answering your question.

I don't know if the prices are good or not. About 1-1/2 years ago I bought a very clean L4240 HSTC (Still looks new, no pesky DPF, DEF, etc.) with 977 hours on it for only $3K more than the L3301.

22 Kubota L251 4WD HST L251HST | Scholten's Equipment

22 Kubota L331HST L331HST | Scholten's Equipment

 

[LEverard]

I have a 2018 Massey Ferguson 2706, which is a 57 HP tractor. It meets Tier 4 Final emission standards without the use of a DPF or DEF. They describe their emission controls as "External cooled exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) with diesel oxidation catalyst (DOC)". Point being, there are new tractors above 25 hp that exist without the hassle of the DPF filter cleanings or buying and filling DEF regularly. I would imagine other methods to meeting the new standards will continue to show up as time goes on as well. There are options out there, I have 225 hours on my tractor at this point, with out any issues.

 

[Smokeydog]

Faced the same decision few years ago to update 30-60 year old tractors. I have downsized a lot and do more playing to keep things up or do projects. Short chore use more common so having a tractor regen didn’t seem compatible. Also needed to mostly maintained by me. Could have bought new but went with used tier 3 machines 2013-2016. Hope they are as trouble-free as the old ones.

 

[smartascii]

I think it痴 important to note that the DPFs do not require high temperature exhaust most of the time. The engine only consumes additional fuel and increases exhaust temperatures during 途egen, when the particulate matter trapped by the filter is burned off. Mahindra uses DOCs, or diesel oxidation catalysts, which convert some of the harmful gases in the exhaust to oxygen and water, but still requires somewhat higher temperatures to deal with the particulates. So a DOC will need higher temperatures all the time to be effective, whereas a DPF needs very high temperatures once every 50 hours or so, and can run cooler the rest of the time.

Also, whether you worry about the environmental impact of your tractor emissions or not, treated exhaust is cleaner, and it doesn稚 stink and smoke as much as untreated exhaust. Whether that痴 worth the complexity and cost of a tractor above 25hp is for you to decide.

 

[chim]

Unless the DOC runs hot enough to damage the paint on the hood, why does it matter that they run hot? What about the catalytic converter on your car?

Buying a used tractor without the latest emission equipment in lieu of a new tractor has no real impact on the environment. Someone will be running the older tractors till they die. It's not as though for every new tractor sold a pre-emission tractor must be melted down.

 

[smartascii]

I知 not saying that someone痴 tractor is going to be the death of us or anything. You run what you want. I personally think EPA regulations in this arena are a little ridiculous. But others do care, and can act accordingly. What I am saying is that, all other things being equal, a DOC engine is engineered to run a little bit hotter all the time, and a DPF engine is engineered to run cooler than that most of the time, and then extremely hot in short bursts. Some seem to think that because DOCs have no filters, they must be more reliable. I知 saying that each one can have different weaknesses. And finally, you might personally prefer less smelly exhaust, so some form of exhaust treatment might be better for you than none at all.

 

[LEverard]

What is the weakness of an engine engineered to run a little bit hotter? Shorter life span of components, more likely for coolant to over heat compared to a DPF engine? I would say the the thought that people have about DOC being more reliable than DPF is mostly based on the fact that at no point is the DOC tractor forced out of operation for a filter burn off.

 

[mred2]

But for my regen, I just keep on working.