R4 for gumbo mud?

[CajunRider]

A portion of my land has about 18" of soft topsoil that turns into gumbo mud after a good rain. Underneath the top soil is fairly solid clay/sand. I'd like to use the R4 to minimize damage to the grass on the other part of the land but really don't want to get stuck in the mud. Can I get by with using R4 or should I get the Ag tires?

Of course if I get stuck I can always get my neighbor to pull me out, but I don't want to be in that position.

Another thing I want to ask is whether I should consider a CUT instead of a SubCUT. Same line of thinking, SubCUT may not have tire big enough to get me outta the mud. Any SubCUT owners (such as CK20HST, B7100) have experience with playing in gumbo mud?

 

[_RaT_]

If your going to use your tractor in muddy situations, R4's are pretty bad. I have R4's and try not to use a tractor in muddy situations as rarely are the results beneficial, but that obviously depends on what your doing. R1's will certainly be a better tire for mud. As far as the impact on the turf, if your mowing on soft ground they will rut more then a R4, but that should be expected when you look at the tread design.

 

[HomeBrew2]

I agree with staying out of the mud if possible. If you have to get in mud, you pretty much have to get thru it to solid ground. If you've got 18" of gumbo (as I do too), that's going to take a pretty tall tire. R1's would be the best bet to dig you into the mud the fastest /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif The wager would be if they find bottom before your chassis does. If you use chains on your R4's you'll get the best of both worlds though with just a little labor. On another tangent, I have found over the years that keeping my boggy areas mowed and smoothed helps the water run off faster so it can't perc down very far and create the bog. Now I have areas that used to be boggy that I can even drive my commuter car on in the winter.

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> If you use chains on your R4's you'll get the best of both worlds though with just a little labor. </font>

You need to get the right kind of chains or maybe not...

Attached is a picture of my R4s, with 2-link ladder type chains on the rear. The leave a lot to be desired in wet clay. Could be that gumbo mud is different.

The picture shows what clay will do when the ground is wet. Very hard moving around on a slight slope, even with ladder chains on, when your tires morph into slicks. Without the chains "very hard" would change to "just about impossible."

By the way, how does gumbo mud compare to clay?

R1s are to some degree self cleaning. I often wonder if R4s are not self filling... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[frank_f15]

IF YOU REALLY GET INTO THE MUD , I DON'T CARE WHAT TREAD you have you are not going nowhere. chains might help BUT only if u can get to solid ground for the chains to dig in. Beleive me i have had them all stuck even the old iron wheels with the steel lugs. i guess that pretty well dates me huh? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[AndyMA]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( R1s are to some degree self cleaning. I often wonder if R4s are not self filling... )</font>

Great quote. R4's are lousy in the mud. Chains do not seem to help much unless there is a hard bottom not too far down. R1's and 4WD get me through most mud even when 18" or more deep.

Andy

 

[NIXON]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( . Beleive me i have had them all stuck even the old iron wheels with the steel lugs. [/quote
NAW Frank , It doesn't date You . But if You start talking about your first steam powered , Chain steering machine ......
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif John

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Just to add a little more rain to your mud, if you are looking at a small tractor like the CK20 or B7100 then there is no way that you will get through that 18" of mud to get to firm ground. The frame or bell housing will make contact with the ground long before the tires hit firm ground under the mud. I don't know what gumbo mud is but I suspect it is similar to clay and as Henro so aptly illustrated with his photo, an R4 in clay is something similar to a racing slick on a F1 Ferrari. The obvious solution is to wait for the ground to drain before treading on those areas of your property.


JUST A DIFFERENT THOUGHT : Have you considered getting a lightweight tractor and putting wider than standard tires on it to keep you on top without breaking through the surface?

OR : Have you considered a track machine as those have far less pressure per square inch of contact?

OR : Have you considered renting something big enough to improve your drainage situation and then simply using the tractor of your choice after the ground has better draining qualities?

 

[btolle]

My guess is you would be better off with ag tires, they have deeper lugs than R4's and will sling the mud off easier.

As a suggestion, try spraying the tires with non-stick cooking spray while they are clean and the mud won't stick to them nearly as bad.

Black gumbo is bad stuff. I have seen lots of it and it is the stickiest stuff in the world.

I would go with a taller tractor than a subCUT. If the stuff really goes down 18" my B7510 would be in trouble with only 12" of ground clearance.

My old Ford 8N did pretty good in deep stuff. I would suggest you find something as tall as an 8N.

Bill Tolle

 

[CajunRider]

Thanks everyone for your input. Just for curiousity I went out to my land and measured the depth of the tracks left behind by my neighbor with his JD5525. On the dry part of the land the Ag tires left 1in deep tracks. On the wet part they are 14 inch deep. Let's say that my CUT is lighter and won't cut as deep, I still think I'll need some thing with 12+ in clearance. Since I am not allowed to fill in the wet area yet I'll need to cut the area to keep the mosquito down. I think I'll do the following:
1. Buy a CUT so I'll get reasonable clearance.
2. Get Ag tires and live with them.
3. Make sure I am on good term with my neighbor so I can get him to help me if I ever get stuck. This should be easy since both of us are fairly easy going. I'll just have to get used to having him needling me for having a puny tractor.

Thanks for clearing one part of my decision making process. I usually make decisions costing many time over the tractor cost very quickly, yet some how I am dragging this out. Hey it's must be because I like the discussion here. What do y'all think?

BTW I am going through all this trouble just for the sunset view (see attached picture) and the great fishing (red fish, rainbow trouts, and flounders, and yes blue crabs if I care to put a trap out).

 

[normde2001]

Just curious, why do you need to work in the mud? Unless pulling/pushing someone out of the mud, I can't think of anything that can't wait til it dries up.

 

[Glenn9643]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, different thread, our ground is probably pretty similar.
I had R1's on my previous tractor, TN65, and went with R4's this time primarily because of the way the fronts on the TN cut when turning. I think my rears are 17-1/2" wide, and the footprint makes a noticeable difference in the depth of rutting. Since doing some drainage ditching over the past year or so I'm able to go just about anywhere now even when it's wet, but there are some spots that you have to just move on through; if you stop a time or two you'll be there a while!

 

[CajunRider]

The swamp grass in the wet area harbors mosquitoes like crazy. If I keep it cut low the mosquitoes don't hang around. A good breeze from the lake and they are gone. If the grass is high and serves as wind break, the mosquitoes stay and breed.

 

[JJT]

What else will this machine be used for? If it's a dedicated mower, get something light with a wide tire. I have some wet spots and the ZD21 works great. Before the zero turn I would have to wait for things to dry out before I could use the 6000 # L3710.

 

[btolle]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Just curious, why do you need to work in the mud? Unless pulling/pushing someone out of the mud, I can't think of anything that can't wait til it dries up. )</font>

Only someone who has never lived in Louisiana would ask that question /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bill Tolle

 

[CajunRider]

Beside being my dirt toy the tractor will be used for general landscaping and bush hogging and that's it for now. I have a ZTR to mow around my house pad where I'll keep a small nice lawn for LadyRider to walk around and plant her flowers.

For future use I plan to buy and develop some acreage about 5 year from now. Since I am a hobby woodworker, I may just take it to the wood and drag some logs out.

 

[KiotiJohn]

CjR, I don't think you're going to be all that much better off with the AG tires in that rue. The CK20 has a 12" clearance, and you'll be on the bottom at 14 regardless of the tire. Sometimes, I've found that the wider R4 can stay on top a little longer than the narrower Ags unless I do a lot of back and forth in the same rut, and you probably know what that does, but they will fill up with mud and then most of the traction is gone.
I've never been able to stick the tractor all the way yet as long as I have my loader. I just get that bucket rolling and curling me right out of it. I have been on the bottom of the tractor, but I have always gotten out so far. John
EDIT: I just read what you posted while I was posting mine, and for sure if you're going to the wood to drag logs, get the larger CK20 or equivalent rather than a Sub CUT. The extra clearance will make a lot of difference, and the CK20 does a great job of pulling large logs. You may have seen my post on pulling logs where I was pulling some over 20' long and two feet across. Not bad for a small framer. John

 

[PineRidge]

R-4s + gumbo mud = slicks no matter how you look at it.

Ag's are much better for sloppy conditions.

 

[CajunRider]

John,
Right now I am thinking 30HP or so CUT such as Kioti: CK30, DK35, Kubota: L3400, NH: TC30, Mahindra:3515.

And Yes Ag tires I will have. Thanks to everyone here.

 

[ScottAR]

There's also an alternative, although more expensive.
An R1W. Fits on R4 rim, has R1 tread. I'm not sure if they'd be available from the factory or not though. Just an Idea.