Raising a cinder block garage door

[Mattt2778]

While you can't alter the trusses and use them structurally, you should be able to remove them and stick build in rafters to ceiling height(depending on spans and lumber used). I've done this by sistering to the truss with 2x12's and cutting out the the trusses bottom chords and webbing after the stick framing is in braced with collar ties. You'll need to consult an engineer but it can be done.

 

[mikefromnh]

Pics of existing conditions aren't loading for me?

 

[BHD]

If you were willing to build a new building, and you have such a concern in the altering of the current roof structure, and the base building is in good shape, may be on that end, cut off the old roof, raise the walls a few feet to the desired height, and rebuild the roof (either reusing the old materials or going all new),

then you would have a working height that is to your desire and not just workable, one could raise the walls with new block or a stem wall.

 

[BHD]

If you were willing to build a new building, and you have such a concern in the altering of the current roof structure, and the base building is in good shape, may be on that end, cut off the old roof, raise the walls a few feet to the desired height, and rebuild the roof (either reusing the old materials or going all new),

then you would have a working height that is to your desire and not just workable, one could raise the walls with new block or a stem wall.

 

[GPintheMitten]

So you haven't bought this property yet, right. You just want to know that you could make it work before you do, right?

If so, yes, there are things you could do to.make it workable. Some ways cost more in labor and materials than others.

I would favor one of two options.

1. Make a taller opening garage door and continue with the reduced height of lift as you have now. This would be the cheapest, quickest and probably safest way to go but with the least convenient for working on vehicles.

2. Jack the whole trussed roof up, add height to the walls and then resecure the trusses to the walls.

Option 1 above you could probably do yourself. Option 2 probably not, given the type of questions you have raised. But you could hire it out.

So I think some solution can be worked out, so you can factor that into your property purchasing decision making process.

If this becomes really your property we can help you more with options and do's and dont's.

 

[BHD]

if there is room on the lot, build a new bay, with the height you want, and leave the old building alone.

 

[crazyal]

So you haven't bought this property yet, right. You just want to know that you could make it work before you do, right?

If so, yes, there are things you could do to.make it workable. Some ways cost more in labor and materials than others.

I would favor one of two options.

1. Make a taller opening garage door and continue with the reduced height of lift as you have now. This would be the cheapest, quickest and probably safest way to go but with the least convenient for working on vehicles.

2. Jack the whole trussed roof up, add height to the walls and then resecure the trusses to the walls.

Option 1 above you could probably do yourself. Option 2 probably not, given the type of questions you have raised. But you could hire it out.

So I think some solution can be worked out, so you can factor that into your property purchasing decision making process.

If this becomes really your property we can help you more with options and do's and dont's.

I wouldn't raise the roof unless I knew the roofing had lots of life left in it. That's why I suggested getting new gambrel trusses that would allow a higher ceiling height without altering the walls. Snow load could be an issue (not sure where the garage is) so altering the walls or roof would need to take that into account. Again, gambrel trusses handle snow great since a portion of the roof is too steep wo hold snow. The easiest (and cheapest) is, like you said, work with what you got. But if I was going to do something beyond just living with it I would remove the old roof and installing new trusses since it's something 2 or 3 handy people could do probably over a couple of weekends.

 

[GPintheMitten]

I wouldn't raise the roof unless I knew the roofing had lots of life left in it. That's why I suggested getting new gambrel trusses that would allow a higher ceiling height without altering the walls. Snow load could be an issue (not sure where the garage is) so altering the walls or roof would need to take that into account. Again, gambrel trusses handle snow great since a portion of the roof is too steep wo hold snow. The easiest (and cheapest) is, like you said, work with what you got. But if I was going to do something beyond just living with it I would remove the old roof and installing new trusses since it's something 2 or 3 handy people could do probably over a couple of weekends.

Yes. That approach has its advantages.

 

[franklin2]

I finally got a picture of the garage in question. I counted the blocks from the concrete to the lintel and it's 10 and about 1/2 blocks. Yes, we have not bought this property yet, but it's still on the list of possibilities. Just trying to work out my options if I do get it. Thanks for the help so far.

 

[JerryK]

I bet a barley pop that there is some type of I beam or something similar in the first row of blocks just above the door. Blocks don't hold themselves up...

 

[franklin2]

I bet a barley pop that there is some type of I beam or something similar in the first row of blocks just above the door. Blocks don't hold themselves up...

That's what I am calling a "Lintel". Here's a site that sells them. IG Lintels - Steel Lintels. My first thought when I started this thread was to support externally the blocks, knock a row or two out and pull the lintel out, and move the lintel up and re-install it. I did roughly measure the interior ceiling and it's very close to being 10ft. Like someone else said, I could use the lift the way I use it now with a 10ft ceiling, all I have to do is position it so I can cut a 4 inch by 4 inch hole up through the ceiling so the hydraulic cylinder can go up through when I raise it up. It does work pretty well this way, that's why I never really got around to modifying the 10ft ceiling I have now.

But the low clearance door on the building above is going to have to be modified.

 

[JerryK]

Another option, is to leave this building alone and use it for a vehicle or storage... lawn equipment.. what ever. And build a new pole building or std construction garage/workshop. You can never have enough toy room ....

 

[muddstopper]

Its going to be very hard to raise the opening height without at least cracking the blocks above the opening. My suggestion might sound weird, but should work.
Measure up to where you want the top of the opening and mark all the way across. Take a hammer drill and drill/cut out enough block material to add another lintel. We are not talking knocking out blocks, just a grove large enough to accommodate the new lintel. Once the new lintel is in place, take a masonary saw and cut your vertical lines on each side of the opening, cutting out one course of block at a time. The new lintel should support the block above while you remove the block below. I would still expect some settleing and maybe a crack in the block above the door opening. Once the lower blocks are remove, you can make a form to go around the open block ends and fill with mortar.

Second option is to just measure up to where the open is the size you want and just remove all the blocks above that line. Reframe the gable end and sheet with material of choice.

 

[check]

That's right. Trusses shouldn't get any support they aren't designed for. I read a lengthy article in a farming magazine years ago on roof failures. There were two that were traced to additional supports. One was caused by the owner adding supports somewhere on the bottom chord because he thought it would help. In reality it changed the stresses from what the trusses were designed for and brought the roof down when the snow laid on it. The other was one that the owner divided the internal space and secured posts to the trusses. Again, the posts changed the way the structure was loaded when the snow came and the roof fell. The article went on to explain that any connections made to the truss needed to be done so the truss can flex. There was a detail to follow that used a sliding connection to the truss so the vertical pipe being used to support the dividers could move up and down without getting bound up.

Very interesting, and good to know!

 

[BHD]

this truss thing on a 24 wide building and all the concern of roof failure is nearly babble, there are a lot of old buildings that are 24 foot wide, that only have 2x4 Douglas fir rafters no trusses at all, and the building roof has not failed, now the normal 2x4 of today is not strong enough but a 2x6 is, so it would not take that much to modify or rebuild the truss or rafters,

I will agree a truss should not be modified as there a designed structure, but if the alternate is designed to do the same thing what the problem? if he sisters up existing top cord of the truss with a rafter capable of handling the load there would not be a problem, before the rest of the truss is removed,

If this was a 30' wide or wider building there would be a need for totally engineered, design, and would most likely need to be a replacement truss of some form.

and going back to the quote, that is in the above post, tell me how many houses that have trusses, also have interior walls that touch the truss bottoms, most likely 98% do in some place of the house, thus what would equal to an additional support,
I am not saying that an additional support may or may not make a truss fail, but there is a large number of buildings that have been built that would equal to additional supports in them,
and the post also said snow was a factor, (was the truss designed for the proper snow load?)

I have designed a few truss, in the past (many years ago), so I have a reasonable Idea on what it takes to make and what the stresses are, (and I can see how a block in the wrong place on a truss could be damaging),
but like I said my guess is 98% of all homes with trusses most like have a wall some where that touches the truss bottom cord, and in most homes truss do not fail even with snow loads, and if the snow dose cause a failure then most like it was over loaded, additional under support or no support,

 

[franklin2]

Another option, is to leave this building alone and use it for a vehicle or storage... lawn equipment.. what ever. And build a new pole building or std construction garage/workshop. You can never have enough toy room ....

That sounds good and I agree, but is not a option. This property is only 1.2 acres, and is sloped. There is no room for another building(right now). I say that because there is 45 acres of wooded land(still sloped but not bad) behind the property. If I get this property cheap enough, and get enough for the house I have now, I might be able to approach the landowner behind and see if he would sell me a acre or two. We are going to make a offer on this property in a few days so it looks like we might be getting it, and my garage modifications(whatever they turn out to be) are going to have to happen.

After what I have read so far with the responses, I am thinking I might try my plan and knock the blocks out, and if that turns out to be a disaster I can go ahead and knock the whole gable out and wood it back in. I am thinking if I try to cut a groove and put another lintel in first, if the groove is big enough for that then the blocks are not supported anyway and there is no difference between a groove and just knocking the blocks completely out. Unless there is a large disagreement on this theory.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Pictures would help.

Edit: Sorry, I see you already posted a pic. I missed it.

 

[pmsmechanic]

After seeing your pictures here is what I would do. Buy a channel iron and drill holes through it and the cement blocks above the present lintel. Bolt the channel iron onto the cement blocks and support each end. Knock out the blocks under the channel iron support and either raise your present lintel or make a new one. It doesn't have to be very strong as all it does is support the blocks above the lintel. If you are careful in knocking the blocks out you wouldn't even need to support the wall with a channel iron but no point in pushing your luck.

 

[GPintheMitten]

After seeing your pictures here is what I would do. Buy a channel iron and drill holes through it and the cement blocks above the present lintel. Bolt the channel iron onto the cement blocks and support each end. Knock out the blocks under the channel iron support and either raise your present lintel or make a new one. It doesn't have to be very strong as all it does is support the blocks above the lintel. If you are careful in knocking the blocks out you wouldn't even need to support the wall with a channel iron but no point in pushing your luck.

I think that's a good idea.

 

[jimmysisson]

Just don't stand under those drilled blocks - pretty weak area above the holes.
Good luck w the purchase.
Jim