Ram 2500 vs 3500 Gooseneck?

   / Ram 2500 vs 3500 Gooseneck? #21  
Or you put more weight on the trailers axles. 2k is plenty of pin weight. Ive never heard anyone having an accident pulling a compact tractor and being a little over their axle weights and being hung out to dry let alone being ticketed. This is from responding to 1000s of motor vehicle accidents. I have gone round and round with people before. My GN is rated at 20k lbs. using y'all's math my pin weight should be 4-5k lbs. this is ridiculous. Absolutely not need for that unless you like wearing out pinion seals along with tearing up your axle. You also take a bunch of weight off the steer axle.

If you find an f250 you like, buy it. Sags to much, buy air bags. If you find an f350 you like buy it. If it sags to much, buy air bags for it.

This is the most over complicated topic on TBN

Brett

Another example-
If I have my class A cdl. I pull this truck, Dozer and trailers. My trucks axles are in weight along with my trailers. Weights and measures is happy as long as all safety stuff is good. They don't care what ford publishes as my max trailer weight. That's all advertising hype. This example is if I'm strictly commercial. Farm plates get you some leeway if for farm use

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Sorry Brett, I don't agree.

Hk, this is the definition of the guy you don't listen to. A 2klb pin load on that setup you have there brett is asking for a jackknife if you ever had to panic stop. The whole ideal of the pin weight is so that you have enough traction for braking. If your trailer brakes are 100% perfect all the time you are a better man than I am. If you can't run with the 20-25% pin weight on the truck, you don't have enough truck. End of discussion. I think Things are a little different in Texas, PA DOT would have a field day with that setup.ATT28616.jpg If you get a real truck that is big enough for your correct weight transfer, 5klbs is absolutely not ridiculous. :D
 
   / Ram 2500 vs 3500 Gooseneck? #22  
Apparently a mdt truck is required to pull a 14k trailer?? Is your trailer overloaded when you haul your tractor? My wimpy 55hp is 11k with the grapple and box blade on it. surely you are heavier than I am. If your tractor weights 14k 12k for tractor and loader, 2k for mx10 and your trailer weighs 4k, you are a loaded weight of 18k. Using your pin weight of 20% (which your truck could take much more) your over your trailer axle weights. theres obviously different thought processes on this but I've yet to kill any nuns and my set-up works great. The dozer weighs 15k but I don't use this truck to haul it very often compared to my deere and mower. Had one panic stop when someone was texting and pulled out in front of me. Everything was fine, I was frustrated because I hate slamming on my brakes but I was nowhere near to a jack knife it was smooth.

If you see me coming down the road, might outta take it to the ditch to avoid certain disaster.

Brett

Edit--I'd like to see what penn dot would try and write me for. Tires are in weight, all axles are good. 4 pts of contact plus implement are chained with appropriate chain/binders. If they did it would be for dust on a light lens or breakaway not having it own separate attachment point vs hooking it to the safety chain hook.

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Last edited:
   / Ram 2500 vs 3500 Gooseneck?
  • Thread Starter
#23  
Okay so pretty much with a 2500 pulling a 25f gooseneck and 12,000 of weight is not good idea. My 14 Ram 2500 always felt safe to me. I really didn't know nothing about the pin weight issues. I see guys with 2500 hauling hugh horse trailers in pa but maybe they have farm tags. I don't know I'm still up in the air since I only tow a few times a year and would rather have the good ride vs getting a 3500 as my daily driver. But I also don't want to have issues with the law if I'm doing something illegal.
 
   / Ram 2500 vs 3500 Gooseneck? #24  
If your happy with your 2500 and only pulling 12k then keep doing what your doing. There's so much fear mongering about this topic. If some on this board had their way they would be telling people you have to have a kenworth pulling a step deck to haul a bx25. I stepped up to a dually when we were hauling our 5th wheel a bunch. It made for a much more stable ride in cross wind situations it was also nice having a extra set of tires out back in case of a blow out. Never had an issue and now I'm back in a 3/4 ton

Brett
 
   / Ram 2500 vs 3500 Gooseneck? #25  
Apparently a mdt truck is required to pull a 14k trailer?? Is your trailer overloaded when you haul your tractor? My wimpy 55hp is 11k with the grapple and box blade on it. surely you are heavier than I am. If your tractor weights 14k 12k for tractor and loader, 2k for mx10 and your trailer weighs 4k, you are a loaded weight of 18k. Using your pin weight of 20% (which your truck could take much more) your over your trailer axle weights. theres obviously different thought processes on this but I've yet to kill any nuns and my set-up works great. The dozer weighs 15k but I don't use this truck to haul it very often compared to my deere and mower. Had one panic stop when someone was texting and pulled out in front of me. Everything was fine, I was frustrated because I hate slamming on my brakes but I was nowhere near to a jack knife it was smooth.

If you see me coming down the road, might outta take it to the ditch to avoid certain disaster.

Brett

Edit--I'd like to see what penn dot would try and write me for. Tires are in weight, all axles are good. 4 pts of contact plus implement are chained with appropriate chain/binders. If they did it would be for dust on a light lens or breakaway not having it own separate attachment point vs hooking it to the safety chain hook.

d191dc1b152c527646c3ea14ead74731_zps19e494cd.jpg

AN MDT is def not required to pull a 14.5k gn. I just happen to use it to pull it. The MDT is very well suited to pulling a 6 horse GN with a dual front tack that has the axles at the very rear of the trailer and fully loaded. My FIL won't even pull it with his duramax dually unless its empty and he doesn't like doing that. Too much pin weight. The international, however, eats its up and asks for more.


AS far as the tractor, no the trailer axles aren't overloaded because I can carry all the pin weight that trailer can throw at the truck. The 5083E specs out at around 7400lbs bare. 1600lbs of beet juice, 1700lbs for the loader 400lbs for the bucket. I leave the mx10 off because its to wide to transport hanging over the edges of the trailer(102" wide trailer, 11'6" mower). So we are right around 11,100 or 11,200 just for mud and chains or what not. Now the trailer weighs 5400lbs by its self. 11200 + 5400 =16600lbs If we take 25% off of that, we get 4150. SO, 16,600-4150=12450. hhmmmm that seems to be less than 14.5k? but maybe my math is off here???? Oh wait, 12450/2=6225/axle. HHmm that math checks out too. In all reality I put the bucket either all the way up against the front edge of the trailer or I put the bucket on the GN to try and get MORE pin weight for better traction. Seems my math works out there Brett. The truck rear axle is spec'd at 17klbs so I'm golden there too. There is night and day difference in the 1 ton light duty pickup and the MDT hauling that same load. I had a one ton SRW cummins that was only good for 23k combination. I was well over that with the gn and tractor and the pin weight was very heavy unless the tractor was placed exactly right. I have to keep checking my mirrors to make sure its back there and with the air ride, its smooth as can be.

Also, in PA at least, you must follow the manufacture's GCWR. They don't care what your hooking up to even if its a 53' step deck with dual 20k axles, what ever the sheet from the factory says you can tag for that is it. If your factory GCWR is 30k, I apologize, but I seriously doubt it. There have been hot shot drivers pulled over left and right here trying to skirt the laws and they get hammered.


I am not saying I have never done things to make something happen, but when someone comes on here asking for a recommendation, we should very clearly take the route of being legal because we have no idea what the person asking the question has as far as capability. I think getting a 1 ton for a bx is ridiculous but hauling over the GCWR isn't safe either and you will have liability problems if you cause an accident. Can it be done from time to time, absolutely, should we recommend it? not at all. Get the right tool to do the job and don't take short cuts.

There are more and more idiots on the road texting today and not paying attention. I try to drive defensively and hope I never lose my trailer brakes, but even if I did, I have more than enough truck to do the job and then some. If you are comfortable towing at or above the max rating of your truck so be it. That is your choice.


HK-Most people make do with what they have. If you have the option to get a big enough truck to run a proper set up with the correct weight distributions, its in your best interest to do so. This subject is beaten to death by every expert on this board. About the only way to get more disagreement is to bring up the CDL requirements or if a bp or gn is better.
 
   / Ram 2500 vs 3500 Gooseneck?
  • Thread Starter
#26  
Okay so maybe you guys can give me a final answer. Again the truck is only used maybe 5 times a year to haul around my machine and my dump to haul some wood and stone. I just got the tow spec on the 16 ram. So payload went up to 2380 whats weird is rear axle went down to 6000 over the 14 which was 6500, But gcwr went up to 25380 vs 25000 and max towing weight went up to 17180. They also had on the page "tongue weight 15% of gross trailer weight for 5th wheel and gooseneck". So If Im at max which my trailers are both 14495 that puts me at 2175 pin weigh so I'm in range with the truck a little close but would I still be okay? Really I only haul around 12,000 which puts me at 1800 pin weight. So is my in formation correct on this? thanks
 
   / Ram 2500 vs 3500 Gooseneck?
  • Thread Starter
#27  
Okay Some pics of my truck with trailer. As you can see it does not squat to much. I also posted my weight tickets. 1-Truck, 2-Truck with trailer, 3-Truck trailer and machine. Can somebody tell me how to figure the pin weight out from these? thanks thanks
IMG_4601_zpspfv5ikig.jpg
IMG_4602_zpsngowertc.jpg
IMG_4603_zps0iuxrb2v.jpg
IMG_4604_zpsdi1zkqns.jpg
 
   / Ram 2500 vs 3500 Gooseneck? #28  
take the rear axle weight of the empty truck in this case 3200lbs (from top ticket) and subtract it from the rear axle weight of the truck and trailer 4220 (middle ticket) you get 1020 lbs added that is the pin weight if the trailer weights 5240 lbs (add pin weight and trailer axle weight) you have 1020/5420 18.8%. the loaded trailer has a pin weight of 1560. or 1560/12020 = 13%
 
   / Ram 2500 vs 3500 Gooseneck? #29  
I just got the tow spec on the 16 ram. So payload went up to 2380 whats weird is rear axle went down to 6000 over the 14 which was 6500, But gcwr went up to 25380 vs 25000 and max towing weight went up to 17180.

Rear axle rating of the AAM 11.5 seems low,

this came up on the Cummins forum back in 08 and a member contacted AAM directly- at that time AAM rated the 11.5 design @10120lbs. or 4950 kg unless AAM has de-rated the axle since then? Or Dodge is playing it a bit safer...???
 
   / Ram 2500 vs 3500 Gooseneck? #30  
Apparently a mdt truck is required to pull a 14k trailer?? Is your trailer overloaded when you haul your tractor? My wimpy 55hp is 11k with the grapple and box blade on it. surely you are heavier than I am. If your tractor weights 14k 12k for tractor and loader, 2k for mx10 and your trailer weighs 4k, you are a loaded weight of 18k. Using your pin weight of 20% (which your truck could take much more) your over your trailer axle weights. theres obviously different thought processes on this but I've yet to kill any nuns and my set-up works great. The dozer weighs 15k but I don't use this truck to haul it very often compared to my deere and mower. Had one panic stop when someone was texting and pulled out in front of me. Everything was fine, I was frustrated because I hate slamming on my brakes but I was nowhere near to a jack knife it was smooth. If you see me coming down the road, might outta take it to the ditch to avoid certain disaster. Brett Edit--I'd like to see what penn dot would try and write me for. Tires are in weight, all axles are good. 4 pts of contact plus implement are chained with appropriate chain/binders. If they did it would be for dust on a light lens or breakaway not having it own separate attachment point vs hooking it to the safety chain hook.

The section of conspicuity tape under the brush hog needs to be replaced. Brett: As a holder of a CDL A You can handle this set up, not sure others could do the same.
 

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