ram 6.4 hemi

[DeereMann]

"Several companies are producing engines that meet EPA standards without urea systems, already, and it's only a matter of time before they all do."

I don't believe this is accurate. The reason that 'others do' was for lower mileage engines that didn't need the fuel efficieny. It is well known you don't need SCR if you don't create the NOx. The way you don't create the NOx without an SCR is by severely retarding the fuel injection timing & adding EGR. Then your fuel mileage goes way, way down. Ask Navistar how that worked out for them (now buying Cummins engines). Heck, CAT got out of the on highway truck business for that reason.

And finally, Cummins first ISB6.7 (Ram) engine recipe had no SCR - but the fuel consumption was so high & they got so many complaints they changed to SCR a few years back just to get the mileage up.

Reducing NOx is not that simple. Gasoline spark ignited engines don't make nearly the NOx that diesels do - because they aren't as efficient, they don't burn as hot.

 

[DeereMann]

When they combine Direct Injection and Direct Ethanol Injection with a high compression turbo motor, I think that will be the end of the light diesel. I am quite surprised that no one has implemented that yet.

I think we're already there, with DI gasoline, VVT, & ACM. What's the point of a diesel unless you need the low end torque (and higher fuel mileage) for nonstop towing? The grocery-getter crowd won't be able to afford light duty emissionized diesels.

That's why it is interesting to see that happens with these just coming out. I think they're 10 years too late to market.

 

[tcartwri]

I think we're already there, with DI gasoline, VVT, & ACM. What's the point of a diesel unless you need the low end torque (and higher fuel mileage) for nonstop towing? The grocery-getter crowd won't be able to afford light duty emissionized diesels.

That's why it is interesting to see that happens with these just coming out. I think they're 10 years too late to market.

With the Ethanol injection you can drive the cylinder pressure to diesel levels without pre-ignition or detonation. They will have torque curves just like a diesel, that will not taper off.

Ford Bobcat

 

[DeereMann]

With the Ethanol injection you can drive the cylinder pressure to diesel levels without pre-ignition or detonation. They will have torque curves just like a diesel, that will not taper off.

Ford Bobcat

Not without building diesel cylinder pressure capable cylinder heads, engine blocks, pistons, connecting rods, crankshafts, torsional vibration dampers, and transmissions.

So the point would be............???

 

[mowin]

In the short run, maybe, Ford took a terrible beating from them (aka 6.0), but honestly Dodge and GM just kept humming, I think. They are coming back stronger, with mileage coming close to before emissions, and I have to admit, cleaner than before. I know some like the "smoke" but personally that kept me from diesels more than anything was the smoke and smell.

Gas engine went through the exact same process in the 70-80's, and are coming around stronger and faster than before and getting better mileage to boot.

Diesels will only get better. Several companies are producing engines that meet EPA standards without urea systems, already, and it's only a matter of time before they all do. If the EPA will back off it's goal of eliminating diesels from the market, the free market engineers will make gas engines a thing of the past. All one has to do is look at the numbers. If I am not mistaken, there is some 40 cars available in the 2014 market, in the US with diesel options. Reaching peak torque at half the RPM, equals better pulling (for passengers and loads) and higher MPG.

The way I feel right now, when the 2005 Honda we are driving meets its time to go, it will be replaced with a diesel. When a majority of the market wants diesel, then prices will fall in line. To me, it's the same as when unleaded gas came along, except this time it will be consumers demanding it instead of the government. From what I have read, diesels actually have the potential to be cleaner than gas engines, PLUS diesel fuel is safer to transport and store, due to the fact that is does not ignite as easily as gasoline.

It took me quite a while to convert my thinking, but now that I have, I see them as the future, in internal combustion. No longer are diesels the slow, smelly, lumbering engines going up hills at half the speeds of everyone else. It's like comparing a Shetland pony to a Clydesdale (that easts like a Shetland). Both are 1 horse power, but one can do a LOT more work.

I dissagree, the EPA is not going to back down on diesel emissions. They now require urea on tractors. I do agree on the new diesels being less stinky. I loved that about my dmax, but the dpf systems cause more issues then there worth. If I had a nickle for every time I said I'll never go back to a gasser, I could have substantially lowered this truck payment. Good luck with your diesel, I truly hope you dont have the issues I've had, and you get many trouble free miles out of it.

 

[tcartwri]

Not without building diesel cylinder pressure capable cylinder heads, engine blocks, pistons, connecting rods, crankshafts, torsional vibration dampers, and transmissions.

So the point would be............???

1100 HP gas motors are fairly common these days using factory short blocks. even Ford shortblocks.....

 

[Diamondpilot]

1100 HP gas motors are fairly common these days using factory short blocks. even Ford shortblocks.....

Yea, that's on the low end for dem Ferds. Had to give the Bow Tie crowd a fighting chance so they backem off a bit!


Chris

 

[DeereMann]

1100 HP gas motors are fairly common these days using factory short blocks. even Ford shortblocks.....

at what rpm? practical for towing from a stop light? pop the clutch @ 10,000 rpm?

 

[tcartwri]

at what rpm? practical for towing from a stop light? pop the clutch @ 10,000 rpm?

well no. I was pointing out that gas motors are very tolerant of boost pressure with the advent of fuel injection and digital ignition timing. The ecoboost proves this out. The guys that push 1000 HP and beyond have a turbo the size of a garbage can lid and achieve those numbers well under 7 grand.

Now add ethanol injection to the mix and high compression pistons and you have the potential for some really stout, but small powerplants. You would have a separate ethanol tank much like a DEF tank.

 

[762MM]

2500 w/6.4L ordered and now in production. Let the wait continue 6-12 weeks.