Rear Counter Weight

   / Rear Counter Weight #1  

esz

Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
26
Location
Colorado
Tractor
Kubota L2550DT Kubota BX2200D Branson 2515H
Anyone know where to find the recommended amount of rear counter weight when using a FEL? I checked the tractor & loader manual, but found nothing.
 
   / Rear Counter Weight #2  
Anyone know where to find the recommended amount of rear counter weight when using a FEL? I checked the tractor & loader manual, but found nothing.

Good question.

As you know, the "ideal" weight is a compromise because the material in the FEL varies in weight. Most of the compact utility tractors (CUTs) have a 1/2 yard bucket... about 13 cubic feet. A 1/2 yard of topsoil (depending on moisture) is about 800 lbs. A 1/2 yard of crushed stone is about twice that.

I always have something on the back of the tractor, either the backhoe or an attachment but I don't have a ballast box yet.

The other guys will correct me but I think somewhere around 800-900 lbs would be a good starting weight. This ballast box has a capacity of 800 lbs:


Also, keep in mind the principal below:

Attachments

  • Tractor-Fulcrum.jpeg
    Tractor-Fulcrum.jpeg
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   / Rear Counter Weight #3  
I am gonna guess about half the weight of what your loader is rated to lift. My loader is rated for 3900 pounds. My backhoe weighs around 1800 pounds and my 8 foot land plane with a 900 pound Red Oak cant on it weighs around 1700 pounds. Even these on occasion are still not enough to keep the rear tires deep in the dirt when moving huge logs.
hugs, Brandi
 
   / Rear Counter Weight #4  
Also, keep in mind the principal below:

Attachments

  • Tractor-Fulcrum.jpeg
    Tractor-Fulcrum.jpeg
    1.4 MB · Views: 124
If your drawing is correct, please tell me why my butt gets lite and my front tires go flat when I try to lift a too heavy load with the loader. The fulcrum would be on the front axle with a loader.
hugs, Brandi
 
   / Rear Counter Weight #5  
If your drawing is correct, please tell me why my butt gets lite and my front tires go flat when I try to lift a too heavy load with the loader. The fulcrum would be on the front axle with a loader.
hugs, Brandi
The loader weight has the fulcrum at the front tires, yes. Increased load increases weight on the front axle and because of the lever effect it reduces load on the rear (making the butt lighter).

A counterweight has its fulcrum at the rear tires - unless the rear tires are in the air in which case it's at the front tires. Increased load here increases weight on the rear axle and reduces load on the front.

How much balast has to do with the maximum load the front axle - which is the weakest link in the system - can handle.

For a yourself tractor that weighs 5000 with loader but no cargo, and 1500# on the front axle and 3500# on the rear, and let's say the front axle max is 2500#.

If you put 1000# in the loader you're likely to overload the front axle because the load is levered out in front of it, which means that the center of mass of the entire tractor+load system is now farther forward - the rear is getting lighter and some of the previously rear weight is now being carried by the front axle in addition to that cargo weight.

This is why you need a counterweight. Filled tires aren't enough; they just make it harder to get the rear up, but they don't keep the front from getting overloaded because the weight isn't behind the rear axle (it's directly over it) so it can't reduce the front axle load.

By using a counterweight, which has its fulcrum at the rear tires, you move the center of mass rearwards and the rear axle ends up carrying more.

How much counterweight? The math is complex: it depends on
- how much cargo
- geometry of the tractor
- tractor wheelbase
- distance from the cargo to the front axle
- distance from the center of mass of the counterweight to the fulcrum (rear tires contact)

The same weight a foot farther back will balance more weight.

Ideally I suspect you want the counterweight to perfectly balance out the cargo in the loader. To make life easier though, people probably try to balance off an average to heavy load.

Best would be to have a scale; weigh at the front axle without load, then with a heavy load with counterweight, and add weight until you get back to the unloaded weight on the front - or at least a value comfortably under the axle max load.
 
   / Rear Counter Weight #6  
I have 1550# of Rim Guard in the rear tires and a 1050# rear blade on the 3-point. I know my Kubota M6040 will lift more than 3000# but limit lifts to around 2800# max. Why - safety. How - I have two charts. One that tells me the weight of basaltic lava rocks - the other the weight of green pine tree trunks. You can find these charts on the internet.
 
   / Rear Counter Weight #7  
One thing I do is always use 2WD when lifting heavy loads. If the tractor will not move because the back tire is spinning, I know I need more counterbalance. Using 4WD to overcome the rear tire slipping is a bad idea. With that much weight in the bucket plus the weight of the tractor is way more than the front drive train is designed to handle. Also remember low and slow when transporting a heavy load on the loader.
 
   / Rear Counter Weight #8  
Good question.

As you know, the "ideal" weight is a compromise because the material in the FEL varies in weight. Most of the compact utility tractors (CUTs) have a 1/2 yard bucket... about 13 cubic feet. A 1/2 yard of topsoil (depending on moisture) is about 800 lbs. A 1/2 yard of crushed stone is about twice that.

I always have something on the back of the tractor, either the backhoe or an attachment but I don't have a ballast box yet.

The other guys will correct me but I think somewhere around 800-900 lbs would be a good starting weight. This ballast box has a capacity of 800 lbs:


Also, keep in mind the principal below:

Attachments

  • Tractor-Fulcrum.jpeg
    Tractor-Fulcrum.jpeg
    1.4 MB · Views: 124
Not sure which CUTs you mean. The 20 series has a 9.5 cu. ft. bucket. The 494/574 has 11.3 cu. ft. bucket. Those are pretty big CUTs. The 35 series is not any bigger than the 20. The 454/554 do have a 13.8. I couldn't find info on the bigger CUT/Utility (654/754). The 1104 has a 19+ bucket, but it is a Utility, not CUT.
 
   / Rear Counter Weight #9  
I would say as a general rule of thumb, I would carry at least half of your rear 3-pt rated weight as a good ballast. Now if your rear tires are filled (mine are filled with Rimguard-highly recommend), then maybe a bit less than half rear 3 pt capacity. I can lift anything up to max rating (2000 lbs) with a 900 lb blower on the rear (filled rear tires).

And the old legacy Branson 20 series is the same size as the 25 series. The 35 series was larger, and the 45 series was larger still.
 
   / Rear Counter Weight #10  
And the old legacy Branson 20 series is the same size as the 25 series. The 35 series was larger, and the 45 series was larger still.
If that was to me, I was just talking about the bucket. The data is on the website. The 35 series is still being made, not past tense. :)
 
 
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