rear end brake problems

[DJ54]

As for the shaft not sliding out. Probably the weight of the diffy hanging on the shaft may have it binding. I do recall in the manual, about not taking both carriers out at the same time, as it will let the differential drop.

As for cleaning, again up to you. I've used diesel to flush housings. More than several cans of carb. or brake cleaner. Brake cleaner flashes off quick, and leaves no residue. I've got a pressurized spray can that holds about 1 1/2 quarts for jobs like this. Maybe a squirt bottle of some kind would work, if you were able to turn the bearings, while applying what ever solvent you decide on. Maybe something like that first, then final cleanup with brake cleaner..??

 

[tomcase580b]

ok I ordered part # 12…and a new set of #15 the shims…mine are all knarley….I already started spraying the final drives with brake clean and getting them all clean…I was thinking of doing the same thing in the differential…just keep moving and spraying and clean up the bottom of the housing with rags…I'll have to work on that bolt though. Thanks again…pics to follow

 

[tomcase580b]

Went to Sears (I hate Sears) Got this little 90 gizmo drilled it a bit, and used my easy out set, and the broken bolt eventually came out. I was looking for an adapter that I could have put on my 3/8/ air ratchet, but this is all they had. Worked really well. Bits were awesome. I thought it was going to be crap and been returned within an hour, but she's a keeper.

 

[tomcase580b]

Bathed in Diesel…Waiting for parts…Will clean with brake clean prior to reassembly…Im going to call the case dealer to see if I can get that bolt…The parts book does not show it as a separate item...

 

[DJ54]

Looking good..!! :thumbsup:

Years ago, I bought a Milwaukee 3/8" 90º angle drill. Worth it's weight in gold for jobs like this.

Man, those bolts do look short..! Reckon' they would be, as the plate & ring gear are pretty thin. Strange they don't show them separate. Hope the dealer has an experienced parts guy, or a wrench in back that has just replaced the bolts, and knows what to get. Worst case scenario, would be to remove another bolt, if you have a good industrial supply house close that could match the bolt. Or maybe a good high performance shop..?? I'm thinking of something comparable to Jegs in our area, or Summit Racing.

A little heads up for you when you put the carrier plate back on, on the outside. I don't know if they still use the Phillips head screws in them or not. I am very fortunate to have a great industrial supply house close with an awesome selection of bolts, screws, etc. I replaced those Phillips head screws with female hex drive one's. Something like 3/8" X 3/4" long. If I remember right, they are only torqued to 12-15 in. lbs.

Also, if you don't get your manual before putting that back together, the book does call for using a special shim tool to slide the carrier over the shaft splines to keep from damaging the seal. An old Case mechanic told me a secret on doing that on another forum. Wrap the new bull pinion shaft, sliding gear, whatever you call it, with electric tape. The trick is, to start at the smooth part of the shaft beyond the splines, but outside of where the seal rides, and wrap outwards over the end of the shaft, and leave a little tab on the end to grasp when you have the carrier assy. in place. Wrapping from the inside, out, leaves a smooth edge for the seal to ride over. Coat the tape liberally with 90wt. Then slide the carrier assy. on CAREFULLY so as not to roll the lip on the seal. Once it is fastened in place, simply grasp the tab on the tape, and pull it off. It works pretty slick..!!

 

[tomcase580b]

ok now I'm a little concerned…Again I'm no mechanic, so I do not know the severity of any of this. I could do what you said and maybe go to a performance shop and have one of those bolts made… I was going to leave it out…lol…there are 15 other ones in there …anyway…I can do that…here is the real problem…

The set screw that you talk about for the carrier plate…was changed out to an allen head at one time…. I could not get that bugger loose….I actually snapped an allen wrench inside while trying to remove….(the least of my problems now)…I figured this was just a set screw to aid in reassembly…While removing the carrier plate (using some force)… the bolt actually broke away with a pice of the casting…fell right on the ground…there is no way thats going back in….unless I fill it with something and re-tap it… i'll try and take some pics

 

[tomcase580b]

Good news is... the bolt still threads into the casting. I should be able to find that bolt pretty much anywhere. I may have one at work. I'm not sure if I should fix the casting, or just blob some silicone in there before re-assembly to make up the void... Just thought of something... I will need a bolt threw or four threads longer now...

 

[DJ54]

I'm thinking it's probably a standard ring gear bolt. Surely it's used in many other applications. I just Googled "ring gear bolts", and got a zillion hits. Bad thing, only seem to be sold in sets, which makes sense... Just a quick look showed prices from $9.99-$19.99 per set. And you know a shop isn't going to break a set. Hmmm...

Wow, betting someone read the torque specs wrong on that screw, and went 12-15 ft. labs, instead of in. lbs. I couldn't remember if the holes were tapped clear through the case or not. None the less, a 1" X 3/8" hex head screw should be fairly common item.

Was thinking too... Did it appear to damage the diff. lock mechanism..?? I cant really recall on the Case, but pretty sure on the Massey 180, it was made from cast aluminum/pot metal material.

 

[tomcase580b]

Went to the hardware store today and got a 1" and an 1.25 " black oxide hex head screw. The original one was 3/4". I borrowed a tap from work but I don't think I'll need it. I did call case though, and those are ring gear rivets not bolts so there is no replacement. Not really sure what to do now... Not sure if the rivet failed and caused the whole problem, or if one of those teeth from the side gear shot up and wedged between the housing and the rivet and caused it to shear off. Either way can't replace it.

 

[DJ54]

Call it a factory update, and hope for the best..!!??

 

[tomcase580b]

That's about all I can do... the more I think about that rivet, the more I think it was the original problem. There is an awful lot of room between the ring gear and the housing. Nothing could have wedged in there and caused that rivet to shear off. The fact that It has a huge tooth mark right in the side of it, seems evident to me that it failed and fell right into the side gear causing all of the side gear teeth to shear off....I'll post pics once I get it all back together...then maybe a video of it running... as long as I don't blow it up again...

 

[tomcase580b]

First I gotta thank you DJ54… You were such a huge help… I couldn't have done this without your guidance…

Here's what I've learned.

1.) The diffy / rear end was broken when I got the tractor last April. The knocking noise I heard when the rear warmed up was probably a broken or few broken teeth on that side gear. It probably broke a tooth or two when that rivet failed, and one of those broken teeth or the rivet finally got up in the gear oil and found their way into the side gear and blew it up the rest of the way.

2.) The slight gear oil leak that I had on the right side (which is still present) Is leaking past the seal on the other side gear into the right brake assembly. I have and had no right brakes. still dont…lol that's ok thats another fix.

3.) Since putting everything back together…no knocking…and…here is the kicker…the machine is fast…and has way more torque / power than before….If I actually had a clue what this thing was supposed to feel like I would have known something was wrong in the beginning. I thought she was just old… And to think all the work I did over the last year with her limping along…it's amazing.

When and if the video that I took ever emails itself to my computer, I will post it here…It's taking forever…I may be able to do it on Monday when I go to work…My home computer is an apple and my phone is an android…they don't play well together…I'm not good at I.T. stuff either…But now I'm a Tractor Mechanic…Thanks Again DJ54

 

[DJ54]

No problem..!! That's what we're all here for. You did the hard part, I just "arm chaired" it, with a few tips, LOL... Now that you've gained that experience, you can pass it on to someone one else of these days. Nothing like the satisfaction of fixing something yourself. And besides, saved yourself a lot of money doing it yourself.

And after that, doing the seal on the shaft ought to seem like a piece of cake... There is another thread on doing the brakes on a 580 on here recently. Didn't know if you saw what I posted on it or not, about boiling the gear lube out of the brake discs.

Also, if you use that parts book online, and get the seal number, you can cross it through NAPA online. Once you get that number, you can search for it here: JBR 17 LLC, Copy the number from the NAPA site, and paste it in the search block at top left. Their price is about half of what NAPA charges. Of course, it may not be worth it for just one, when you consider shipping.

Glad you got 'er going... Enjoy..!!

 

[tomcase580b]

3rd gear fast - YouTube

4th gear fast - YouTube

 

[DJ54]

:thumbsup:

 

[tomcase580b]

Hey DJ I have a question for you. The tractor has been running great the last few days. Yesterday after a full days work, I checked all of the fluids in prep for today's storm. I ended up putting 4 quarts of hydraulic fluid in the transmission, because I couldn't tell if it was full or not. I didn't check it with the engine running and in neutral. Anyway this morning I was having a lag when engaging from reverse to forward and back. a few seconds sometimes. When I was running at a good clip it was fine, but if I stopped the tractor to empty the bucket, and went to back up, it would lag again. Do you think this has to do with the fluid I put in...If I have 20 quarts instead of 16... I plan on draining it tonight to see how much I have in there. I should mention that I have no external leaks from that area.

 

[DJ54]

I don't think having too much fluid would cause that.

Does it have the clutch cut out switch on the dash..?? My 480 does, but thinking some of the later 580's had it on the wobble stick type loader control. Not sure if you have dual control's for the loader like mine or not.

If it does have it either place, and it's on..., when you press the brake pedal, it will cut out the drive, allowing you to throttle up to work the loader.

It's also a good idea to come to a complete stop, before changing direction, if you aren't already.

 

[tomcase580b]

Hmmm.... I don't think I have the cut out switch... New problem I guess... I'll have to see how it goes

unless i'm having a problem with the brakes....it was crazy cold...If I do have the clutch cut out switch, and the brakes were sticking because of snow or cold, then that makes sense. And I did recently adjust the brakes after putting everything back together when I did the diffy...

 

[DJ54]

Well, if it's real cold, yeah that 90wt. would be like molasses, and will take a lot of movement to get it warmed up.

 

[tomcase580b]

More i think about it the more I think you are right... It's probably the clutch cut out... I always wondered y I didn't lunge forward when giving throttled when having the brakes applied.... I usually put it in neutrals... But if I forgot. It never lunged forward... I'm thinking the switch is sticking a bit because of the cold or maybe it's just failing... I'll check for it later