Rear Work Lights not working

[spindlewood]

I changed out all the bulbs on my DK40SE (only one headlamp was left working). When done, I found that the two rear work lights won't work. I replaced them (and the fronts) with NAPA BP1235/H3-N. Since the front work lights work fine, my guess is that the cab switch is bad. However, the cab switch lights up - does this indicate anything? I haven't tested voltage anywhere as it's late and a pain to take the work light covers off again in the snow.

In terms of troubleshooting, I presume you'd check voltage to the rear work lamps first? Presuming there is none, what would be your method of troubleshooting to make sure it really is the switch? Any other possibilities?

I noticed that when I pulled out the rear bulbs, they came out fairly easily. However the fronts required pushing in through a hole in the connector (using an awl) to release some kind of catch which prevents the connector on the bulb from slipping out. I doubt there is a connection issue, but mention it to give all the info.

Another oddity:
I tried to check fuses (before the fronts were changed), and according to the shop manual, fuse 7 should be the work lights. But when I look at the fuse box, that one doesn't exist (all the others do). Have they included the work lamps with the headlamps fuse?

 

[TN8Man]

Are you sure these are the correct replacement bulbs?

You should check the voltage with a meter. Check the light socket and then at the switch if no voltage at the socket.

You could have a broken or disconnected wire in the path also.

 

[grsthegreat]

The kioti cab tractors have a separate fuse box on the left side rear by back window and near seat. Did you check those fuses

 

[Roadworthy]

You may also have corrosion in the light sockets. A voltage check and troubleshooting are definitely in order. It COULD be the switch but it could also be connections or wiring. Doe a neighbor have a garage or shop you could use to stay warmer?

 

[spindlewood]

The kioti cab tractors have a separate fuse box on the left side rear by back window and near seat. Did you check those fuses

That's what I was hoping to hear. The shop manual doesn't show it. :banghead:
If it turns out there is a blown fuse in that box, you've saved me a lot of aggregation. Thanks.

 

[grsthegreat]

That's what I was hoping to hear. The shop manual doesn't show it. :banghead:
If it turns out there is a blown fuse in that box, you've saved me a lot of aggregation. Thanks.

no problem. i think its shown in owners manual.

 

[spindlewood]

You may also have corrosion in the light sockets. A voltage check and troubleshooting are definitely in order. It COULD be the switch but it could also be connections or wiring. Doe a neighbor have a garage or shop you could use to stay warmer?

The work lights don't have sockets. It has male / female slotted connectors and are clean. After work tonight, I'll get out the multi meter. No shops around me in my part of the woods. At least it isn't below zero.

 

[spindlewood]

Are you sure these are the correct replacement bulbs?

You should check the voltage with a meter. Check the light socket and then at the switch if no voltage at the socket.

You could have a broken or disconnected wire in the path also.

I'm pretty sure they're the right bulbs, especially since the fronts are working. If there isn't voltage and no blown fuses, I'm in for a few long hours of troubleshooting as I take apart the cab.

 

[spindlewood]

no problem. i think its shown in owners manual.

Not in my manual. My wife verified it's there. The fuse looks intact, she says. I will try a new one anyway. It's a 15A, different than the 10A shown in the shop manual.

**Update** It has one called "working lamp". Not sure if that's it for both front and rears. Replacing it did nothing.

 

[grsthegreat]

let me go look at my dk45.....will check back

 

[grsthegreat]

ok. after looking at my tractor and my shop manual, i can tell you some things on my 2010 DK45 cab. first, pulling the working lamp 15 amp fuse kills the rear lights. second, there are 2 relays located on the right hand cabin pillar that control the lights. i have included some pics. so the switch controls power to the relays, and the relays power lights. this is the fuse label. working lights is the lower right when i pulled lower right fuse lights went out. heres the line drawing from shop manual that shows switches, relays and cabin lighting. this is the cover on the right piller that has to be removed. im not sure, but i think its the piller cover with the cigarette lighter socket that is the one needing removal, but the book is vague about which one to remove. these are the 2 relays. these are the relays detailed


there twin relays, so if 1 part has failed (rear lights) the front part can still be working.

 

[grsthegreat]

years ago i pulled off all 4 cab lights and changed them out to LED. way better lighting. but no heat is produced, so sometimes snow builds up on them. . this is before led install


this is after led install .


only sucky part, you have to raise the roof of the tractor cab to access lighting brackets and wiring. whole job took about 3-4 hours as i recall.

 

[spindlewood]

ok. after looking at my tractor and my shop manual, i can tell you some things on my 2010 DK45 cab. ...

I've got the shop manual but finding the relevant pieces takes understanding their logic (or lack). Now I understand why I couldn't originally find the cabin fuse box in the manual, I went to the index and sure enough, the index only references the main fuse box and doesn't list the cabin fuse box page at all. Guess I need to read complete sections.

I'll have to wait until Saturday daylight to get at it.

 

[spindlewood]

I tested at the rear work light and there is no power, as I suspected.

I took off the pillar and found the work lights twin relay. This is where I realized that I don't really know what I should be testing.
Looking head-on at the white connector, there are two rows of pins. The wires behind the pins are as follows:

YBRRBW
Y****W

With the front work light switch on (ones that are working), Yellow to Yellow has power and the Black and Red on the right side show power.
With the rear work light switch on (ones not working), the Black and Red on the left side show power.

I didn't test all combinations and didn't know what to test on the relay itself. Any advice on what to look for?

If not the relay (and how can I tell) ... what can I test next?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[grsthegreat]

going by this diagram, there should be 6 wires on one side of relay and 4 on the other. Either wire #4 or #1 go feed the lights. It looks like the use the same twin relay for the wiper motor, so i think you could just swap the 2 to see if thats the issue. Your wiring looks different from the schematic. The book is for a 2010, not sure what year yours is. Im not really sure how to test a relay except for slightly pulling connector out so pins still touch, then testing wire #4 and #1 for 12 vdc ( with black test lean on a known good ground and red test lead touching pin #4 or pin #1) as you flip switches.

 

[spindlewood]

View attachment 676488 going by this diagram, there should be 6 wires on one side of relay and 4 on the other. Either wire #4 or #1 go feed the lights. It looks like the use the same twin relay for the wiper motor, so i think you could just swap the 2 to see if thats the issue. Your wiring looks different from the schematic. The book is for a 2010, not sure what year yours is. Im not really sure how to test a relay except for slightly pulling connector out so pins still touch, then testing wire #4 and #1 for 12 vdc ( with black test lean on a known good ground and red test lead touching pin #4 or pin #1) as you flip switches.

Actually, the schematic is correct and I found the same one in my manual. Since there's only 2 wires fed to one side of the relay (the side with 4 in the schematic), I didn't show the two empty slots. Anyway, your idea of using the wiper relay to test with was brilliant. Front and rear lights worked just fine with the wiper relay, so I'll be ordering a replacement from Tractor Joe. Their price isn't bad for the relay ($30), but shipping is a killer ($18). Couldn't find a better site, though.

Typical, I dropped one nut while trying to replace the working relay on its post and it went straight down the opening the pillar made. I should know better - and set up a towel to catch nuts. Anyway, now trying to figure out what size nut - looks to be an M6.

Thanks again.

 

[grsthegreat]

No problem. Michigan iron is also a good site for kioti parts. By the way, there are like 4 or 5 of those double relays on the tractor. One or two under the hood, and some under dash cover. I had to replace one that runs the pto.

Maybe i should order one to keep as a spare.

Glad it worked out.

 

[TN8Man]

Actually, the schematic is correct and I found the same one in my manual. Since there's only 2 wires fed to one side of the relay (the side with 4 in the schematic), I didn't show the two empty slots. Anyway, your idea of using the wiper relay to test with was brilliant. Front and rear lights worked just fine with the wiper relay, so I'll be ordering a replacement from Tractor Joe. Their price isn't bad for the relay ($30), but shipping is a killer ($18). Couldn't find a better site, though.

Typical, I dropped one nut while trying to replace the working relay on its post and it went straight down the opening the pillar made. I should know better - and set up a towel to catch nuts. Anyway, now trying to figure out what size nut - looks to be an M6.

Thanks again.

I will never use Tractor Joe again ... they ripped me off

 

[grsthegreat]

weird...after referring someone here awhile back about rear lights not working. i went out this morning to take delivery of a generator, went to back out of shed and no rear led lights. the front worked, but not the rear. opened the side cover to check the relays, and plugged the upper light wires into wiper relay. wala the lights work. i dug thru my Kioti parts and actually found the extra relay that i just know i had. plugged it in and bolted it up, and all works fine now.

i was checking online for this relay, and like it was stated above about $34 plus shipping. i called my local Kioti dealership and he can get me them for $28 plus tax. no shipping...ill pick them up. im going to get one or 2 for spares. this tractor uses like 4 or 5 of this same relays.

by the way, the NEW part number is T4935-43102 for any future reference.

 

[spindlewood]

weird...after referring someone here awhile back about rear lights not working. i went out this morning to take delivery of a generator, went to back out of shed and no rear led lights. the front worked, but not the rear. opened the side cover to check the relays, and plugged the upper light wires into wiper relay. wala the lights work. i dug thru my Kioti parts and actually found the extra relay that i just know i had. plugged it in and bolted it up, and all works fine now.

i was checking online for this relay, and like it was stated above about $34 plus shipping. i called my local Kioti dealership and he can get me them for $28 plus tax. no shipping...ill pick them up. im going to get one or 2 for spares. this tractor uses like 4 or 5 of this same relays.

by the way, the NEW part number is T4935-43102 for any future reference.

Good call on going through the dealer - no shipping. Next time I drive that way (2 hours), I'll probably get spares as well.