Recognizing stolen equipment ???

[Industrial Toys]

Do all you guys by any chance wear T-shirts that say "Kick-me" on the back? lol

I knew a shrewd business man and he always spelled out C A S H, saying the letters one at a time sternly. My friend often think back and mock him when talking about our various used equipment transactions.

 

[Ken]

You do realize those are civil matters and not criminal, you could sue, now whether its worth it or you have a leg to stand on is another matter. Now I would sympathize in your case and to a point somewhat agree that those are flat out theft.

The problem with the legal system or what people dont understand is the legal system is designed to be fair and balance, yes I know it can be backwards and often times can favor the wrong party. But in your case' the legal system has no choice but to conclude at the onset that both you the plaintiff and defendant in this case' are both telling the truth, whether you like it or not or think you are right. The investigation/trial will then attempt to see who was right. The legal system isnt perfect but it' set up the way it is for a reason, unfortunately not every single situation is going to be figured out for somebody, even when somebody loses 100k.

In your cases I wouldnt transfer property off a personal check, and wouldnt be loaning 100k to anybody and if I did there would be a contract. IMO if people transfer anything of value without a firm paper trail they are just as wrong.

RE=Reading you answers and just wondering if you are part of the legal system ? Lawyer . Judge . small print writer. Maybe a college Professor
anyway the comment I made about bankruptcy was legal theift.
There was Legal papers of change of ownership signed by seller and buyer and payment with check. verified for amount held in bank.

My loan also had supposed legal papers that payment would be made.
but when some scroungy dog chooses to not pay and declares bankrupty seems all the lawyers . back out and nothing to be done but roll over.

ken

 

[nards444]

RE=Reading you answers and just wondering if you are part of the legal system ? Lawyer . Judge . small print writer. Maybe a college Professor
anyway the comment I made about bankruptcy was legal theift.
There was Legal papers of change of ownership signed by seller and buyer and payment with check. verified for amount held in bank.

My loan also had supposed legal papers that payment would be made.
but when some scroungy dog chooses to not pay and declares bankrupty seems all the lawyers . back out and nothing to be done but roll over.

ken

Listen I am with you and agree to an extent, just telling you what the law is. There is a lot of things in my mind that is theft but technically is considered by the law to not be theft, i have co-workers that show up to work every day late and get paid for it, that is theft too.

The issue is when you willingly give somebody something an exchange for X, and the terms of that deal dont work out it is a civil matter. Now you may not be successful but there are methods to obtain relief. Regardless of bankruptcy you should be able to get a judgement in small claims assuming your paperwork is in order, again if you went off a handshake then good luck, as like I said no reasonable person would believe either party without paperwork. There are other methods as well, mechanics liens among other things. People are shady and people get screwed all the time.

 

[Diggin It]

anyway the comment I made about bankruptcy was legal theift.
There was Legal papers of change of ownership signed by seller and buyer and payment with check. verified for amount held in bank.

My loan also had supposed legal papers that payment would be made.
but when some scroungy dog chooses to not pay and declares bankrupty seems all the lawyers . back out and nothing to be done but roll over.

ken

That's all contract issues. Legitimate creditors are usually notified when someone files for bankruptcy so they may appear to defend their claim and seek reaffirmation ( a promise by the debtor to continue to make payments). That doesn't always go well for private individuals however.


The guy that drove off down the road then called to say the check was stopped .... that's theft.

 

[nards444]

That's all contract issues. Legitimate creditors are usually notified when someone files for bankruptcy so they may appear to defend their claim and seek reaffirmation ( a promise by the debtor to continue to make payments). That doesn't always go well for private individuals however.


The guy that drove off down the road then called to say the check was stopped .... that's theft.

yes and bankruptcy is not necessarily a get of jail free for them, it often gets them out of what they are in now but leaves an ever lasting mark.

 

[Jstpssng]

At a shop of our's, had a man that needed a tractor fixed. Axle was bad. We gave him price on a new one. He said that was too much, but he had another axle in another tractor. He got it and we put it in. Charged the labor to his account. 90 days later no money. At about 110 days he brings the tractor back and said that the axle is out again. He wants it fixed under warranty. We explained that the part was his and there was no warranty. Gave him a price to fix it, he agreed. We fixed the tractor. He wanted to pick it up. We told him, we would have to have payment for him to pick it up. He came with check in hand. We loaded the tractor and he pulled out on the highway. Down to road, he called and told us he had already done a stop payment on the check that morning.

A former female acquaintance did similar for her son, I've never been certain if they were in the right or not. The son lost the axle assembly on his 6 month old Montana tractor... the bolts holding it together sheared off at the hub. It was covered under warranty but Montana said the work was worth X dollars and the dealer said that it cost Y, so the son had to make up the difference. She wrote a check, they got the tractor back, and she put a stop payment on the check as soon as they left the dealership.
I had done business with him when he was a transmission repairman before going into the tractor business and knew that after he shook your hand you'd better count your fingers to make sure that you still had all of them. He's also why I won't look at an LS tractor...

 

[searcyfarms]

karma will take care of that stuff, and god will provide other customers to make up the difference

 

[paulfun9]

At a shop of our's, had a man that needed a tractor fixed. Axle was bad. We gave him price on a new one. He said that was too much, but he had another axle in another tractor. He got it and we put it in. Charged the labor to his account. 90 days later no money. At about 110 days he brings the tractor back and said that the axle is out again. He wants it fixed under warranty. We explained that the part was his and there was no warranty. Gave him a price to fix it, he agreed. We fixed the tractor. He wanted to pick it up. We told him, we would have to have payment for him to pick it up. He came with check in hand. We loaded the tractor and he pulled out on the highway. Down to road, he called and told us he had already done a stop payment on the check that morning.

The laws in PA changed over the years and bad checks and things like you describe could lead to felony charges being filed.

 

[ovrszd]

The laws in PA changed over the years and bad checks and things like you describe could lead to felony charges being filed.

Yeah, I don't get a warm feeling about stop payment. Why not resolve the issue before handing over a check with your signature that should mean honest intent while knowing you have no intention of honoring it? So the signer is dishonest from the beginning. Now who is the crook?

 

[Jstpssng]

Yeah, I don't get a warm feeling about stop payment. Why not resolve the issue before handing over a check with your signature that should mean honest intent while knowing you have no intention of honoring it? So the signer is dishonest from the beginning. Now who is the crook?

So you try to do right, but he has your tractor for however many years it takes to resolve it. Meanwhile you are still making payments to the bank, and writing checks to the insurance company so that you don't default on the loan. You also are paying somebody to do the work which you intended to do yourself when you bought the tractor... Yes, let's resolve the issue in the court system.
The tractor I mentioned in my post above was purchased because he was trying to establish a business doing tree work... the tractor was making those payments. Without it, the little niceties wouldn't matter.
It must be nice to be independently wealthy, so that you can afford to tie up your time and money trying to get somebody to honor a contract.

 

[paulfun9]

First we are talking about two different situations. The one I quoted is clear and outright theft and would most likely lead to charges being filed against the person who wrote the check. The other is a bit different but was still handled in the wrong manner. Sounds as if the shop doing the work wasn’t following all thier obligations to the contract they had with the tractor manufacture and trying to take money outside the parameters of what I am assuming the contract was. Stopping payment wasn’t the correct or legal way to resolve the issue but rather just a way to avoid dealing with the problem the correct and legal way.
If they did that today the police would be able to charge them with theft because they agreed to pay for the work and have no legal standing. In order to get thier money back and recover the cost they would need to pay the bill and then file suit against the dealership and tractor manufacture for any breach of contract based on the written warranty that came with the original purchase of the tractor.
Yes it sucks having the machine tied up if your unwilling to pay the money and have to wait till it’s resolved but in a law suit against the dealer and manufacturer if it is determined that they are in breach of the contract, that money will be part of the settlement and be returned.
In your scenario the crook is actually the dealer but in the manner it’s handled the victim actually breaks other laws and we have all heard it many times “two wrongs don’t make a right”

 

[David_Kb7uns]

You want guarantees then buy new from the dealer. Any purchase other than dealer is a crap shoot. Crooks have more ways to screw you than you have the time to figure out how they will do it.
The courts are zero help, sure you will win, but you can't get blood from a rock. I sued a well off crook driving a Range Rover, his kid was in a high end school, he lived in a million dollar home etc etc.

Sure I won the judgement, but he has NOTHING in his name. Everything was in his wife's name and he refused to show up in small claims court after being served so I autmatically won teh judgement. He never paid and they can't go after anything of "his" as he owens NOTHING - but he's millionaire.

FALSE

They had a salesman at a power sports dealer doing cash sales and pocketing the money with incomplete paper work and the sales were then written up as installment sales and they were sending repo guys out to get the paid for equipment.

NO GUARANTEES with a dealer either

 

[JimR]

There is a quick and legal method to get whatever is desired. At a pedigreed Holstein cattle sale. watched a buyer purchase 12 head of cows and loaded his Ohio trailer .The amount of close to 100 thousand bucks. check verified with bank as legal and left the sale. before he returned to his place of business was a lawyers office. and declared bankruptcy .
When the check bounced owner found out ,Could not touch or in any way bother the theif had full goverment protection
we stopped at his barn about 6 months later and he called sherrif who told us to get off property and not return.or we would be cited for disturbance.illegal entry . the cattle died of old age and still no payment .
2nd example. a person i knew had business of hydroseeding large areas Golf coarses and highway right of wayss. One eveniong came to my home with sad story of his equipment and truck stolen from work area. wanted to borrow money to purchase new truck and hydroseeder equipment and when insurance paid he would return. except visited a lawyer and bankruptcy blocked any attempt to recover the money.
Judge kindly explained I coud do nothing to hinder his activities. or attempt to recover any money. legalized theft backed by our legal system.
This is in total close to 200 thousand bucks just my experance. Now look in daily news papers of bankruptcy and see how many is being made.
My Father repeatly said never trust a Lawyer or Banker and watch the Judges . and if talking together some one is losing his money.

You got that right about not trusting people, lawyers and judges. I recall a builder that was building a million dollar house years ago. He had contractors come in and do all this custom work to the place. Next thing you know he filed for bankruptcy. The contractors came back and took all of the work that they had done out of the place. When the place went up for auction it had been gutted by the contractors.

 

[Jstpssng]

You got that right about not trusting people, lawyers and judges. I recall a builder that was building a million dollar house years ago. He had contractors come in and do all this custom work to the place. Next thing you know he filed for bankruptcy. The contractors came back and took all of the work that they had done out of the place. When the place went up for auction it had been gutted by the contractors.

Do you blame them? They knew that they were getting screwed, why should he profit?

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I haven't read all the posts on this thread but here is one experience. Large equipment item posted for sale on CL, indicated as owner sale. Sent the seller an inquiry to get the serial # to check manufacturer date to verify the asking price and prepare negotiation strategy, and also unknown to him; check it also for stolen. He got incensed and said "no you might claim to LEO it was one you had stolen and gave me only the first 3 characters of the #". Uniquely that was the SN part indicating the date. In his response he also indicated he was a Dealer (fraud prohibited by CL). That got me thinking; if he won't reveal the serial # he may well be selling a stolen item. Backed off that one, price too high for the age, anyway.

Afterword checked his business; it is a used contractor equipment one man dealer. It all indicated to me he possibly sells a lot of stolen stuff as unethical he appears to be. Due diligence can pay off. Notified CL but have heard nothing back.

Ron

 

[JimR]

Do you blame them? They knew that they were getting screwed, why should he profit?

I was glad to hear that the contractors did what they did.

 

[JimR]

I haven't read all the posts on this thread but here is one experience. Large equipment item posted for sale on CL, indicated as owner sale. Sent the seller an inquiry to get the serial # to check manufacturer date to verify the asking price and prepare negotiation strategy, and also unknown to him; check it also for stolen. He got incensed and said "no you might claim to LEO it was one you had stolen and gave me only the first 3 characters of the #". Uniquely that was the SN part indicating the date. In his response he also indicated he was a Dealer (fraud prohibited by CL). That got me thinking; if he won't reveal the serial # he may well be selling a stolen item. Backed off that one, price too high for the age, anyway.

Afterword checked his business; it is a used contractor equipment one man dealer. It all indicated to me he possibly sells a lot of stolen stuff as unethical he appears to be. Due diligence can pay off. Notified CL but have heard nothing back.

Ron

CL is a noted scam selling website where fake items and stolen items are sold. I've seen many of the ads and dealt with a few people on certain items for sale over the years. A dead giveaway of stolen goods is when they say they have to meet you in a parking lot for the sale.

 

[Shaneard]

CL is a noted scam selling website where fake items and stolen items are sold. I've seen many of the ads and dealt with a few people on certain items for sale over the years. A dead giveaway of stolen goods is when they say they have to meet you in a parking lot for the sale.

Not necessarily. Some people don't want other people to know where they live so they don't come back and steal their stuff later on.

 

[MossRoad]

Our local PD has a parking lot just for on-line sales meetings to exchange goods and payment. It's right in front of the PD and has good lighting and cameras 24/7.

 

[CobyRupert]

Recently I bought a apartment sized washer-dryer unit off of Facebook Marketplace.

New 24" washer-dryer units are $1100, I bought one in fairly new condition for $260, down from $300 he was asking. It was strange in that I was messaging seller's sister who lived 30 miles away from seller. She said her brother "doesn't do internet."

She eventually gave me brothers street address but no other contact info (name, phone# etc..).
I get there, the place has some (IMHO, and I don't usually judge) sketchy characters hanging around (but is it fair to judge from appearances?). They probably were owner's young adult kids who still live at home, & maybe their friends, and their baby-mommas, etc.. hanging around, who knows? Seemed like the 'hang-out place" (for some reason ).

Anyways, seems like this guys gets appliances, fixes a part, then sells them. He says "He gets them from a buddy..not sure where his buddy gets them..."
The washer-dryer did have a noticeable scratch on the front panel. Later I wondered if this occurred during a "hurried removal" from its original location.

So....should I keep a fire extinguisher next to the washer- dryer? What are the chances it's so hot it might burst into flames?