Refurbished tractors questions

[EFC]

3 tractors I don't want .
Chinese
Gray Market
Refurbished.

Grey Market is not a brand or model, it is an importation tag, Your BX models are sold in Japan, if I import them does that make them junk that you wouldnt own? A used import tractor from Japan bought from a reputable dealer will generally outlive its owner. You do realize the American models are dumber, stripped versions of the tractors they build for themselves. In Japan you tractor has 5 PTO speed with a reverse gear. Auto leveling three point with computer controlled draft control, double speed front axle for 88 degree steering, ect, ect.

I think it is funny that in one post Chinese and used imports are out the window but refurbished might be ok. lets just put that into perspective, a used Mercedes imported from Germany with 10,000 miles on the odometer that has been well cared for and handpicked buy the importer is junk and out of the question. But one that had 400,000 miles that was junked, wrecked and discarded then pieced back together with pieces from other junked Mercedes and all with third world slave labor is worth considering....... The Vietnamese use the word refurbished because they know you wouldnt buy it if they called them what they really are, which is salvaged. That is why they paint them to look new and install new hour meters (question was asked how to tell if it is a Vietnam rebuild... always a new hour meter). I have had dinner in Japan with the Vietnam buyers and they laugh at the vanity and gullibility of the American buyer.

Before you flame me realize I have been to these salvage Vietnam factories and I am in Japan each month and I watch the tractors the Vietnamese load into the containers for refurbishing. My average cost for a good quality low hour tractor in Japan before shipping is $3500.00 for the Vietnam buyers it is $100.00. Should give you a good idea about the quality they are looking for.

Find a good solid used tractor, be it imported or domestic and a good dealer that supports what he sells and you cant go wrong.

 

[john_bud]

That was a very elegant description of why "refurb" is a bad word.

Unlike what Soundguy does, which is repair or even restore. Making a used machine mechanically sound is one thing. Making it pretty is different, sadly that is what most "refurb" places are doing. We used to call it a Sherwin Williams rebuild -- only skin deep.

jb

 

[Yankee Clipper]

I agree whole heartedly with EFC's opinion - it all comes down to a decent machine with a good dealer behind it.

You get exactly what you pay for in compact tractors, as you do with anything else you buy.

 

[studor]

I have 143 acres and needed a tractor for many of the tasks you describe (and a lot of others I discovered later). I bought a MF 135 (35 -42 hp depending on who you believe) and while it is a good tractor with available parts and lots of capability it lacked 4wd and my butt seemed to over the loader brackets a fair amount of the time . Like Diamondpilot I ended up buying a Jinma 28 and have not regretted it. It is simple, works and outperforms the MF on every level. It is small enough to use on my ATV trails (although it requires trimming overhead branches that I would otherwise ignore) but powerful enough to do lots of tasks with wood and rock. I have never seen a Vietnamese rebuilt or a "refurbished" Japanese tractor but I have seen lots of stuff that has no parts availability and was really overpriced because of its color. I also saw a lot of really nice lawn tractors that would need full underbody armor on my place.
You have not said if you have any mechanical ability or how much you want to spend but the two seem to work inversely when it comes to tractors (i.e less money requires more mechanical capability)
Find an old farmer, befriend him and take him tractor shopping -- it will be worth it

 

[Soundguy]

Jinma 28 ....... It is simple, works and outperforms the MF on every level.

Hmm.. the MF 135 is in the 'short' line as one of the great tractors throughout history.

I'd hesitate to say that a chinese mid 20's hp machine that likely won't last 60 years is head and shoulders in all areenas above that MF.. etc. Too much history behind that line to dismiss it completely.. and not enough history behind the other to put it on the high pedistal...

Note... i'm not saying there are not tasks that a new small tractor with a creeper drive and 4wd won't do better... etc

soundguy

 

[studor]

Soundguy -- you are right that the MF135 is a great tractor (I think I said that before)-- but it is 40 years old and it uses technology that is older than that (and you pay a premium for that reputation)-- if I could buy a new one with 4wd and creeper I would, but unfortunately one of my former countrymen who is now a visitor in one of your state's federal institutions made sure I could not -- and what I can buy in that line is made in India, probably from the same recycled old ships as the chinese ones
The MF is by far my sentimental favourite that I remember driving new as a kid-- but it now stays in the barn during the winter and when I am working in the bush -- if I could only have one tractor it would be the Jinma -- it may not be around forty years from now (or maybe some rich Chinese guy will be buying it and shipping it back as his sentimental favourite!!!) but I probably won't be either.
I was merely trying to make the point that the new Jinma does what I need to get done better than the MF135 at 40. Kinda like us - not nice but reality.
I think we are probably in violent agreement!!

 

[mattman]

I am still looking for a tractor. I am scared of the china made tractors. Should I be? I trust and american named tractor made in some other country because you know the tractor has to meet the specs set forth by the american company. I guess I need to do some more research into the other tractor models besides the big name tractors. How about the branson/century tractors?? i have seen some of them used for what looks like a good price.

 

[WilliamBos]

Soundguy -- you are right that the MF135 is a great tractor (I think I said that before)-- but it is 40 years old and it uses technology that is older than that (and you pay a premium for that reputation)-- if I could buy a new one with 4wd and creeper I would, but unfortunately one of my former countrymen who is now a visitor in one of your state's federal institutions made sure I could not

He should fry for that...

 

[studor]

Agreed William -- once a greedy knight, always a greedy knight!!!
Mattman -- Don't be "afraid" of any make -- opinions are like a lower orifice -- everybody has one. The makes you mentioned have a very good reputation around here because they have a couple of very good dealers. No tractor of the size you are looking for is made in North America -- so which importer is better? -- One with a name that charges a premium or one of the smaller ones trying to grow? I don't know!
Go drive some tractors -- don't be afraid to try them out -- talk to the sales guys -- if you don't feel comfortable, don't go back. Read about the various brands on here -- (although as you have seen not everyone will have the same opinion on any given make -- see rule above)
Regards
Steve

 

[neucam]

I think you answered your own question, any Vietnamese dealer will not warrentee or have have after sales service. The Chinese tractors are not made as well as Japanese or American, some dealers solve these problems with installed better bolts, parts, etc. I do have a grey market Zennoh and it crosses over to a Kubota model, I have had it for many years and do not use it much but it has been a solid tractor. Maybe I got lucky. Not many American tractors are 4wd that is why many people go Kubota or Yanmar/John Deere.

 

[Soundguy]

the new Jinma does what I need to get done better than the MF135 at 40.

See.. you've said 2 different things... first you said the jinma outperforms the MF 135 in all areas. now you say it does what you need better than the mf135,, IE.. it outperforms the 135 in 'CERTAIN" areas.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

soundguy

 

[Egon]

IE.. it outperforms the 135 in 'CERTAIN" areas.

That would be an inferred conclusion not a definite statement!

 

[WilliamBos]

See.. you've said 2 different things... first you said the jinma outperforms the MF 135 in all areas. now you say it does what you need better than the mf135,, IE.. it outperforms the 135 in 'CERTAIN" areas.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

soundguy

Exactly. That is a pretty bold statement to make about a tractor from that era. I most certainly not work that little Jinma they way a 135 actually gets worked.

 

[studor]

OK just to ensure you understand what I mean and in keeping with Mattman's original question, for what I use a tractor for the Jinma outperforms the MF 135 at all levels, therefore, since I don't do everything that a tractor is used for, by default the Jinma might only outperform the 135 at "certain" levels. I am "uncertain" what those levels would be other than longevity and maybe some farming tasks that I don't do. I work the Jinma harder than I work the 135, partly cause I know what the 135 will take before it breaks having broken it on a number of occasions . Some of my farming neighbours have MF100 series tractors that they use for a limited number of agricultural tasks -- like pulling wagons, moving bales etc. Like me, they put those tractors in the barn in the fall and don't use them in the bush ( course some have 8n's that they use for pulling floats in parades too ).
I guess I should have just said -- Mattman -- don't buy an agricultural two wheel drive semi antique to do the tasks you have outlined -- regardless of reputation -- buy an Asian made(cause you probably cannot buy anything else) four wheel drive from 25 - 35 horsepower. -- JMHO

 

[scott_vt]

I guess I should have just said -- Mattman -- don't buy an agricultural two wheel drive semi antique to do the tasks you have outlined -- regardless of reputation -- buy an Asian made(cause you probably cannot buy anything else) four wheel drive from 25 - 35 horsepower. -- JMHO

Good Afternoon Studor,
You make some very good points, and after reading through this whole thread, I think that what Mattman needs is a 30 ish hp FWD machine. FWD for hills and the bush trails but still small enough to be manuverable in the woods !

Your going to raise the ire in some of us antique buffs when you start to discount older machines ! I used my 49 Super A to plow me out this mornin after a 10" drop ! It was 12 degrees outside and that old Farmall started before I had a full revolution on the engine ! BTW its 60 years old !

But I understand what your saying, thats why I own a 86 MF1040 FWD. 32 hp with a FEL, it does alot of jobs the Farmall cant do. Now that Massey is a Japanese built tractor with over 1500 hrs on it and I bought it used for $6000. Thats probablly the type of machine that Matt needs ! I believe he said he was in a budget. Actually if I was him I would try and get a more current model with better parts availability ! Although I have owned it 5 years and was able to fix anything on it myself !

BTW, here is a pic of the old and the newer machines !

 

[studor]

Love the Farmall
I just believe that when things get to a certain age we should make accomodations for them -- kind like people of a certain age

 

[mattman]

Yeah a 30 horse 4wd and front end loader should do the job for me. I am keeping an eye open for a deal around close. I still have a couple months to get something rounded up and ready to go.. I have to do some clearing and disk the ground where the food plots are to be. My daddy has a 8n it is just not the right tool for the jobs i have, or I would just use it. the main problem is not wanting to pay that money. I hate to pay intrest on a loan, would rather pay cash, but then I hate to use up my cash money with the way the whole economy is doing.

 

[lambs]

Mattman, If you're considering a Jinma, check this link out for loads of discussion about them.

Chinese Tractor Owners Association - Helping Each Other With Chinese Tractor & Dozer Knowledge

I've done a lot of reading on this site to learn more about how diesels work and how to resolve common problems. I've gotten a lot of ideas from this site and TBN.

I think if you're mechanically inclined, a Jinma might work fine for you. There seem to be some common issues with them, and if you are prepared to correct them, from what I've read they are pretty good machines. If you're near a reputable Jinma dealer, so much the better. There are several dealers that contribute to the ctoa site discussions.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[kenmac]

Scott, That is one NICE Farmall. I have never seen one with a blade. That is a beauty you have

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Yep, don't buy an older tractor. They're junk and can't do anything. They never should have been built in the first place. Leave them for us poor folk. Especially stay away from those old 2 cylinder green ones.

BTW, can't tell you how many 4 wheel drive tractors I've pulled out of the mud with my old 2 cylinder green tractors.