Relay switch seems to keep Failing

[kioti pup]

I have had Alot of problems getting my tractor started and I replaced the relay switch for starting and that worked for awhile but now it seems the switch is fried again. Does anyone have any ideas on what may be causing this? Thanks!

 

[murphy1244]

Have you looked at the ignition switch? It is a known problem as are the battery ground cable.

 

[k0ua]

I need more input.. there are several "starting relays" glow plug relay, fuel solenoid relay? .. please be more specific.. and what does "fried" mean? Contacts burned up? pitted, or welded? coil open? There is a reason for any kind of failure, but lacking specifics, we can't be of much help.

Even a careful examination of a "blown" or ruptured fuse can give some insight to why the fuse failed. For example the inside element is missing with a black spot on the inside of the container, indicates a huge amount of current flowed through the fused link.

A slight break in the element and no black spot, could indicate that a fuse failed simply from vibration and no excess currents have flowed through the element at all.

These are only examples, but the concept is the same for trying to diagnose your problem with the failed relay/relays A careful scientific analysis will require careful data gathering before a hypothesis can be formed about the possible causes of the failure.

James K0UA

 

[LD1]

Yes, please provide us with more details, and specifically, what relay is giving you fits.

 

[kioti pup]

I need more input.. there are several "starting relays" glow plug relay, fuel solenoid relay? .. please be more specific.. and what does "fried" mean? Contacts burned up? pitted, or welded? coil open? There is a reason for any kind of failure, but lacking specifics, we can't be of much help.

Even a careful examination of a "blown" or ruptured fuse can give some insight to why the fuse failed. For example the inside element is missing with a black spot on the inside of the container, indicates a huge amount of current flowed through the fused link.

A slight break in the element and no black spot, could indicate that a fuse failed simply from vibration and no excess currents have flowed through the element at all.

These are only examples, but the concept is the same for trying to diagnose your problem with the failed relay/relays A careful scientific analysis will require careful data gathering before a hypothesis can be formed about the possible causes of the failure.

James K0UA

Here's a picture of the switch that I had originally replaced. I think it is the glow plug relay. Once I replaced it, the tractor worked great for about 10 on and offs and now it seems to be doing the same thing where it "clicks" but won't turn over to start. I can manually start it by jumping it with a piece of wire. I was lucky and got the part for $5 but it was at an auto part store and maybe I didn't get a perfect match. But it did work for a bit. I pulled off the new switch and I can't see anything wrong with it.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

See if you can read the amperage rating of the old one. The new one needs to be rated at least that of the old one. At $5 you could pick up a couple spares until you get things figured out.

 

[k0ua]

OK, lets throw out some things and narrow this down.. It is NOT the glow plug relay, because that has nothing to do with Cranking the engine. Your stated problem is the engine wont crank. NOT that it wont start, because it will start if you "jump it What exactly are you jumping? Please be specific. You take a wire from battery Positive + to exactly where? Remember I am hundreds or thousands of miles away and all I have to go on is what you tell me. Also I don't believe this to be the fuel solenoid relay, as that also would not prevent the engine from cranking, It would prevent it from starting. So that leave the last of the 3 relays involved the starter relay. Which would be the first relay on the left as you open the hood and look on the firewall looking towards the operator seat.. or put another way the relay that is closest to the right side of the tractor. Now there are several things that can prevent this relay from having its coil energized. The first question I would have is the coil being energized, is the relay pulling up? You also need to let us know if the unit is HST or Gear.. It makes a difference in the circuitry. If the relay is not pulling up we need to identify its coil contacts and check for voltage during the attempted cranking cycle. The problem at this point could be dozens of things. This will help with identification.
Well cant upload any pix for some reason

 

[kioti pup]

OK, lets throw out some things and narrow this down.. It is NOT the glow plug relay, because that has nothing to do with Cranking the engine. Your stated problem is the engine wont crank. NOT that it wont start, because it will start if you "jump it What exactly are you jumping? Please be specific. You take a wire from battery Positive + to exactly where? Remember I am hundreds or thousands of miles away and all I have to go on is what you tell me. Also I don't believe this to be the fuel solenoid relay, as that also would not prevent the engine from cranking, It would prevent it from starting. So that leave the last of the 3 relays involved the starter relay. Which would be the first relay on the left as you open the hood and look on the firewall looking towards the operator seat.. or put another way the relay that is closest to the right side of the tractor. Now there are several things that can prevent this relay from having its coil energized. The first question I would have is the coil being energized, is the relay pulling up? You also need to let us know if the unit is HST or Gear.. It makes a difference in the circuitry. If the relay is not pulling up we need to identify its coil contacts and check for voltage during the attempted cranking cycle. The problem at this point could be dozens of things. This will help with identification.
Well cant upload any pix for some reason

Its the starter relay. I am a total idiot when it comes to electrical stuff. The relay is on the far left and its an HST tractor. Thanks for including the diagram but I don't know how to use it. The amperage of the two relays is the same. The only difference is that I notice one has 30/20 (the original) on it and the other just has 30 (replacement). By just changing the relay the tractor worked fine for about 10 starts and then it stopped working again. I can start it by touching the starter and I think a cable from the battery.

 

[kioti pup]

If I disconnect the relay and take it to the store, do you think they can run a relay test there? I know they have testers there. The relays are only $5 so I could just by another one and see if the problem is solved. But something else might be going on.

 

[Dr Dave]

You could swap in anouther relay from the glow plug or fuel shut off circuit, for a quick check.

dave