Reloaders - Question on brass for newbie

[mudcat47537]

If you are going to reload for a semi auto you must full length resize. My experience with reloading for a AR 10 type rifle you may need a set of small base dies to get reliable function out of it. For plinking and even hunting type loads the brass type will matter very little just stay away from any near max loads and it will be of little issue. When you get within a grn or 2 of max load, then you need to separate but I seldom load at those pressures and they really don't seem to give the best accuracy anyway. The military LC brass and maybe the Federal will have crimped primer pockets that you will need to remove the crimp on before re-priming. I like to use a swedge type crimp remover but some use a primer pocket reamer or even a case de-buring tool to do this. You will most likely need to trim your cases to length as well. I don't anneal anything I reload and usually get 10-12 reloads out of a case before I see any case neck splits. By then I figure the case has provided me with a decent life and I am happy. I have no doubt that annealing will add to the life of the case but for what I reload 30-06 for my United States Rifle model 1 cal. 30 or Garand as most people know it as. 300 AAC Blackout in my ARs and .223 and 6.5x55 in bolt action I really have no trouble obtaining good quality brass at decent prices. Annealing for me would be an added cost and time with very little pay out. I shoot the M1 in CMP and Highpower matches about 3500 rounds per year.
I only say this because it sounded like you may be a relatively new reloader. If so try and find a reloader that has been doing it a while and see if they will mentor you along and get you going in the right direction. I did this myself and do it for others now and it is a great opportunity if you can find someone. If you cannot find anyone pick up a good reloading manual or 2 and read it before you even start the process. My recommendation for a good manual would be the Lyman 49th or the Lee manual both have very good detailed process instructions.
Good luck, be safe and don't push the envelope.

 

[thatguy]

Granted. I made the assumption that the OP already was familiar with reloading. Just asking for opinions about different brass. If he is going to go max load on every flavor of brass there could be an issue. But I don't think that is what he is asking.

I am new to reloading but based on the what powder/bullet combo i am using it seems most ppl find their best load below the max grains.. I am really just wanting an accurate hunting load with 150 yds.. No long range stuff for me..

 

[thatguy]

You will load them all in time. Just keep them separate and remember that a max load in the civilian brass will probably be too much in the heavier military spec brass. You can weigh them empty and filled with water to determine the difference in case capacity. The Federals and the Hornaday's might be close enough to group them together but check it yourself.
Remember to not reload if you're already loaded. :shocked:

Let me see if i understand you.. I weigh the military brass then weigh the 'commercial' brass.. since the outside measurements should be the same - the weight difference (in grains) would tell me how much difference the powder capacity is??

b

 

[thatguy]

thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate it..

I am waiting on the rest of my 'stuff' to come in and I still reading any and everything I can to learn..

thanks

Brian

 

[vtsnowedin]

QUOTE=thatguy;3587009]Let me see if i understand you.. I weigh the military brass then weigh the 'commercial' brass.. since the outside measurements should be the same - the weight difference (in grains) would tell me how much difference the powder capacity is??

b[/QUOTE] Close but not quite. Different brass formulations have different unit weights so to measure the case powder volume you weigh the case empty then weigh it full of water. Water has a unit weight of one gram per cubic centimeter but I just keep track of it in grains of water to fill the case. The space taken up by the bullet would be the same for any brand so the difference of a full case of brand W and one of brand R as far a powder capacity is concerned is that difference you measured.
If you find working with water messy you can just fill a case level full with the powder you are using and weigh the powder. I have found that Winchester and Federal cases hold more powder then Remington cases but that might not be true in all calibers. Check your brass out and let us know what you find. It is a good way to spend a cold winter evening.

 

[bcp]

Let me see if i understand you.. I weigh the military brass then weigh the 'commercial' brass.. since the outside measurements should be the same - the weight difference (in grains) would tell me how much difference the powder capacity is??

b

Only if brass and powder weighed the same, but they don't. Using water is slow and messy, but useful if you want to compare yours to the water capacity someone else published. The problem with using powder to measure case capacity is that it can settle or compact more in one case than the next. Maybe use an electric toothbrush to vibrate each one until the powder no longer settles. Do 10 cases of each and average the weights.

And remember you can't do this with random fired cases from different rifles. Full length resize them first.

I just use a moderate load and don't worry much about case weights. If I really needed more velocity, I would get a larger cartridge.

Bruce

 

[k0ua]

I just use a moderate load and don't worry much about case weights. If I really needed more velocity, I would get a larger cartridge.

This is what I do, Just don't ever really use Max loads. Find something that works well down the list a bit, and go on. If you run at the edge, you must be much more precise.

James K0UA

 

[Soundguy]

no matter what brass is used. start at the minimum load and work up looking for signs of pressure.

I load hundreedss of 60's era cases from greek 3006 and old lake city. I load it interchangeably with my other brass..

PS.. rarely have i found a MAX load is the most accurate. I tend to laod around the middle depending on what my goal is. Some people get lost chasing velocity.

You have to ask yourself what your goal is? Under 300 yds? if so.. brand of primer and other differences in how you load will make less difference than you might think.

I personally would not automatically reduce a starting laod by ANY amount laoding military brass. Minimum load is minimum load.. you can get dangerous detonation and pressure problems loading less than minimum loads depending on the powder you use. ( Yeah.. some powders you CAN load down safely ).

Also.. I would not use ANY rule of thumb to reduce any loads by X.

get a new published manual and go by book. thay have test equipment. don't use your gun as test equipment.

lastly. you will be using an autoloader... full length resize your brass. it won't last as long as in a bolt gun where you could get away with neck sizing.. but you will need the FL resize.

Lastly. that AR platform. what is your chambering? is it really .308 remington.. ( and saami spec ) or is it 7.62x51 nato? You can shoot 762x51 in a 308 rem chamber no problem.. i would not shoot 308rem in a 762x51 nato chamber
. many manuals will give a different loading spec for 308 and 762x51 same for 223rem vs 556 and even 30-06 meant for modern guns vs the m1-garand.. which might ben an op rod on modern hunting grade 30-06 ammo.

do use a crimp of some sort. either roll or factory crimp. in either case.. you will want uniform 'trimmed to' cases ( case trimmer, caliper reading .00X and a case gauge if you can swing it. ) watch for crimped primers in milspec ammo.. they will have to be reamed or swaged out. swager is $$$ reamer is cheap.

Don't automatically think all military brass is heavier than all commercial. You won't know until you weigh it.

See the table at post #10 below:
http://m14forum.com/ammunition/144295-always-reduce-nato-stamped-brass.html#post1192811

LC averages the heaviest, but some FC is heavier than some LC, and would also need a reduction from a hot load tested in light brass.

Bruce

 

[whistlepig]

I used to do a lot of bench rest shooting for pleasure. I reload mostly pistol now. I do understand the water capacity of a brass casing and how to measure it. But I never saw the need to do so. Trying different primers, powder, and bullets seemed, for me anyway, was the most rewarding in my quest for accuracy for rifle. Brass seemed not to make a big difference in accuracy. I did learn that some brass is more durable and lasts longer when reloaded. That is the brass that I preferred.

Pistol is much the same. I shoot mixed range brass that I pick up. Primers seem not to be so important when reloading pistol but powder and bullet type makes a big difference for me in pistol. Part of the fun in reloading is experimenting.

 

[Soundguy]

I do understand the water capacity of a brass casing and how to measure it. But I never saw the need to do so. ..... Brass seemed not to make a big difference in accuracy. .

I agree. I shoot everything from range pickup mixed head stamp.. to lake city.. to old cmp/greek / other military surplus, new commercial 1x fired.. and new commercial unfired.

starting a load low and working up in new brass has never caused me a problem.