Reloading ammo

Relic · Jan 31, 2015

Gary Fowler said:
I just finished my CCW class and just to pass along what my instructor said ( he is a LEO + been teaching for 18 years. Optical sights are not allowed for the shooting test (at least here in Arkansas- I scored 95% with my open sights on a 9mm Ruger that I hadnt shot much at all so I had 2 rounds outside the center torso)however laser sights are OK although he doesn't recommend using them for your daily carry especially during daylight hours. He said that while you are searching for that red dot, you might get dead by the perp with a gun. Best to just point and shoot which shouldn't be problem if your attacker is 10 feet away. Any further than that and you may be in trouble with the law anyway proving that you were in a life and death situation.

I was kind of amazed (appalled actually) as to what you can and cant do to protect yourself. It seems the bad guys get the benefit of the doubt and you must prove that they meant to do you bodily harm so much so that you may have to take some punches if the guy isn't armed before you would be justified to even pull your weapon for threatening. You can be arrested for just showing your weapon in public as it is considered to be a threat of violence.
An example given is " you are in your house with door unlocked, an unarmed intruder can come inside take whatever he wants as long as he doesn't threaten you and you really cant do anything about it (legally), defense of property is not an excuse to shoot someone.
In the above scenario, if your door was locked and they kicked it open, you might get away with popping a cap on their arse.

Good grief,are You sure You don't live here in Canada?

bumperm · Jan 31, 2015

Gary Fowler said:
Best to just point and shoot which shouldn't be problem if your attacker is 10 feet away. Any further than that and you may be in trouble with the law anyway proving that you were in a life and death situation.

First, congratulations on the CCW! Woopie!

Wow, I'm not sure where you live either, but it's in most states in the USA, and for being an ex-LEO, he's sure dumping some questionable advice on you. I'm an ex-LEO too, 10 years on the Oakland, CA PD . . . and CA is arguably one of the most gun unfriendly states.

Firstly, if you are in fear of your life, or that of your family, and can convince a jury of that, you are pretty much good to go. Heck, you don't even have to wait for a bad guy to get in. Once case I went on, the bad guy was kicking in the door and the door was splintering in front of the young lady. She blasted him through the door. Good.

As to how far to too far away to use deadly force, do a quick Google or YouTube search on "21 foot knife attack" - - you might be surprised, and the ex-LEO you saw surely should be.

bumperm · Jan 31, 2015

Walkin Horse said:
You know something else I remember from that class. He said one day you will be carrying and someone will piss you off and not realize how lucky they were that they were able to walk away.

If all they did was piss you off, luck shouldn't have a thing to do with it. That seems a very strange statement coming from a firearms instructor.

One of the presumptions in issuing a person a CCW (in those states that do screen or have at least minimal standards) is that you have good enough judgement to carry a gun responsibly. Must work, as the number of CCW holders using a weapon in an unlawful manner is extremely low. Heck, in Nevada where I live, you don't even need a CCW to carry a loaded, concealed weapon in your vehicle - - just to do so on your person. Road rage in NV is almost unheard of, no need to wonder why.

RobertBrown · Jan 31, 2015

Soundguy said:
I'd move to a free state....

Don't want to get political.....yes I do.....

How could it be that the "Stand your ground" law is not common sense?

If you don't want to get shot.... stay out of other peoples stuff....real simple.
I get it...why doesn't everybody?

Soundguy · Jan 31, 2015

Wish there was a like button ....

Walkin Horse · Feb 1, 2015

bumperm said:
If all they did was piss you off, luck shouldn't have a thing to do with it. That seems a very strange statement coming from a firearms instructor.

One of the presumptions in issuing a person a CCW (in those states that do screen or have at least minimal standards) is that you have good enough judgement to carry a gun responsibly. Must work, as the number of CCW holders using a weapon in an unlawful manner is extremely low. Heck, in Nevada where I live, you don't even need a CCW to carry a loaded, concealed weapon in your vehicle - - just to do so on your person. Road rage in NV is almost unheard of, no need to wonder why.

I'm assuming that's what I meant. As we know the good judgement test only comes after the permit is issued. I also realize that the carrier is lucky but only he knows. 20 years,I still call it my good character card.

Soundguy · Feb 1, 2015

Yup, good card

Gary Fowler · Feb 1, 2015

bumperm said:
First, congratulations on the CCW! Woopie!

Wow, I'm not sure where you live either, but it's in most states in the USA, and for being an ex-LEO, he's sure dumping some questionable advice on you. I'm an ex-LEO too, 10 years on the Oakland, CA PD . . . and CA is arguably one of the most gun unfriendly states.

Firstly, if you are in fear of your life, or that of your family, and can convince a jury of that, you are pretty much good to go. Heck, you don't even have to wait for a bad guy to get in. Once case I went on, the bad guy was kicking in the door and the door was splintering in front of the young lady. She blasted him through the door. Good.

As to how far to too far away to use deadly force, do a quick Google or YouTube search on "21 foot knife attack" - - you might be surprised, and the ex-LEO you saw surely should be.

I too have seen that mentioned on the TV show "JUSTIFIED" but I am still not sure if it is correct. I know I am not a quick draw expert but I have been timed to draw, fire and hit a 12"x12" target from 15 feet distance in less than 1.5 seconds using a single six revolver. I think I could do it faster with my semi-auto since I wouldn't have to cock it. I don't think anyone could go from dead stop to 21 feet in 1.5 seconds and given the fact that I could move sideways also, would make it a lot harder for them to contact me. NOW if one wasn't prepared for this scenario, which would be most folks I think, I could see it happening really easy.

I think you missed the point about a burglar coming in an UNLOCKED door while not carrying a threatening weapon or making threats, if this happens the only thing you could do is try to physically overpower him. My instructor did say that if they are kicking down the door, then you have reason to fear for your life AND CAN shoot them thru the door. He also said that if someone is breaking into your home or has broken in and you can safely exit, then that is the best thing to do. Take your weapon and cell phone and get outside and away. Call the cops and let them handle it, nothing in your home that cant be replaced and neither you nor the perp need to become involved in a gun battle where one or both of you could be injured or killed.

bumperm · Feb 1, 2015

Gary Fowler said:
I think you missed the point about a burglar coming in an UNLOCKED door while not carrying a threatening weapon or making threats, if this happens the only thing you could do is try to physically overpower him. My instructor did say that if they are kicking down the door, then you have reason to fear for your life AND CAN shoot them thru the door. He also said that if someone is breaking into your home or has broken in and you can safely exit, then that is the best thing to do. Take your weapon and cell phone and get outside and away. Call the cops and let them handle it, nothing in your home that cant be replaced and neither you nor the perp need to become involved in a gun battle where one or both of you could be injured or killed.

I don't think I missed the point. If a person enters your house, uninvited, even through an unlocked opening, you meet the intruder with a firearm. Announce yourself, saying pretty much anything like, "Stop right there! I have a gun!" AND that person then charges at you, or approaches in a threatening manner . . . you DO NOT have any obligation to engage that person in a physical confrontation or to flee - - period. If you are armed, then by default in a physical confrontation the intruder is armed as he may take your gun and use it on you. In that scenario, he is advancing on you despite being warned to stop, and you are thus in fear of your life, shooting the intruder will be held to be justified - - at least in any state I'm aware of. If you can convince a jury you were in fear of your or your family's life - - justified.

This does presume the incident will pass the "reasonable person" test. If the person coming at you could in no way overpower you, say a child or a feeble old person, or a drunk who staggered into the wrong house, well no, a reasonable person would probably not buy into your right to blow them away if they are not attacking or threatening you.