Remodeling Question - Outside Window Removal (not)

[HCJtractor]

More pix

 

[ddbackhoe]

Here are a few pictures of mine, before and after. I enlarged an old bath, added a large tile shower where the widow was. I removed everything down to the framing. Remove an old double hung window. Repaired and made the new framing ideal, coated every wood member with a Red Guard. Can稚 remember if I used any pressure treated in vulnerable places. Had a new all vinyl widow made with privacy glass. Installed it, flashed it. Added tile backer board and taped it and sealed it, including a sloped sill. Then added tile, butted up to the vinyl window frame. I suppose the only weak point is this horizontal junction. But I sealed it with a high quality silicone caulk. And it痴 easily visible and accessible. The outside was trimmed in PVC trim and of course caulked normally. Note water from the shower heads doesn稚 directly hit the window. Of course, splashed water does. But I知 pretty confident it doesn稚 leak. I don稚 see any difference in danger versus any tiled corner or junction that痴 sealed with caulk or grout. Of course the window is fixed, doesn稚 move. I believe it will out last me. I can稚 imagine what the exterior would look like to just eliminate the window. Plus it lets light into the bath. And is very private. I値l post some outside pictures tomorrow. View attachment 559318View attachment 559319View attachment 559320View attachment 559321View attachment 559322
Note outside photo is the old window.

That was a good idea, blends in well and still lets the light in. This was "replacement" window without the nailing flange, right?

 

[newbury]

Without seeing your plan, my first thought would be to remove the window (not the frame) and replace it with a few glass bricks/blocks.

Glass Block Photo Gallery :: Accent Building Products
Glass Block Window in Shower - Bing images
Colored Glass Block Wall - Bing images

That was my first thought also. My Grandmother had a glass block wall in her kitchen that faced an entry door. Could not see in hardly at all but let a lot of light in.

<snip>
Have seen houses here with false windows where they install "closed" shutters to give the impression of windows and there is no window at all, just impression of window.<snip>

Be careful of "false windows", my parents had a 2 story house with a false window on the second floor. The house caught on fire and the firemen wasted precious minutes getting their ladder truck in position so they could go through that window, only to find solid wall and have to attack another window.

 

[HCJtractor]

That was a good idea, blends in well and still lets the light in. This was "replacement" window without the nailing flange, right?

No. Since I went all the way down to the framing, and even tweaked the old framing, I used a new construction window with a flange. If you like, I can look up the specific model.
Here are other pictures, from outside. I wanted to keep the original brick unchanged, and have the window blend in with my other new windows. Of course it isn’t exactly the same ( my others are aluminum clad sash windows), but the color and style is close.
I’m posting another picture of a window I did have to alter the brick, as I made the old opening less tall since it was now over a counter. So I had to try to match the brick and old mortar, which is almost impossible with a hundred year old house. But it’s close. But my opinion is not to change the brick unless you have to.
My problem with glass blocks is that it limits your size options. They only come in one size, and the math didn’t work for my opening. Plus what’s the difference butting tile to glass blocks versus tile to a solid vinyl window frame.? You still have the same caulk joint. I think my window from the outside looks more original than glass blocks, and us also easier to install.

 

[HCJtractor]

Windows are designed to keep weather out from the outside, not from the inside. It is impossible to have a window in a shower and not have water get into the walls. I've had a few clients insist on keeping the window, so I seal up ever edge, everywhere I can find anything that water might get through with exterior clear flashing sealant. Not caulking, not silicone. I have them sign a paper saying that I do not guarantee anything about that window being able to keep out water from the inside. I've also done the glass blocks a few times and that's a lot easier to seal up and still have some light.

Moisture damage is usually visible at the window sill. One of the worse cases that I've seen was a window in a tile shower/bathtub that seemed fine from just looking at it, but once the tile came off and the studs where exposed, it was a massive termite infestation that had eaten away every stud. The tile itself was all that was holding up that wall. Termites love moisture and wood, that's a magnet that will draw them in from miles around. Mostly it's just black mold.

Of the windows that where totally sealed off from the inside so you didn't know they where there. Two where on the second story of the house, and the home owner never knew anything about them, and I never thought to go outside before the job started to see if there was a window behind the tile. One had insulation between the glass and the backer board and it seemed fine. The other was a mess, but I can't say for sure if it was from the shower, condensation or the window itself leaked. There wasn't any major damage, or rot, but there where a lot of bugs, spiderwebs and a nasty smell to it. Another was a fiberglass insert shower that blocked the window on a first floor that was covered by plants so I didn't know it was there on the inside. That window didn't seem to be an problem, but once I saw the window, I had to seal up the opening before I could tile the shower that I was doing. Seems like there was one more, but I'm not remembering it clearly enough to say anything about it.

Hey Eddie. I know you are a professional and always have great advice and insight. I value your opinions. What do you think about how I did this window? Do you think I am doomed to get leakage there and future damage? I was curious to see what you, as a professional thought. I’m not, I admit that! But I think my solution will hold up over the years, as long as my interior caulking in maintained.
Thanks!

 

[EddieWalker]

... I think my solution will hold up over the years, as long as my interior caulking in maintained.
Thanks!

I've found that when a home owner does a project, and they want to do it well, it is usually done VERY WELL. For me, I try to do what my clients want done, so if they want the window in the shower, I'll do everything possible to seal it in as many layers as I can. But I don't want to leave the window in, and I will talk to them about what can go wrong, and what I've seen in other homes. It's about 50/50 on those who take them out, and seal up the opening.

In your case, based on the quality of your finish work, I would guess that you sealed your window up as good as possible, and as long at your caulking remains in place, you should never have any issues.

The ones that I think do the worse jobs are the house flippers who are only concerned with appearances to sell it quickly. I charge $100 to clients to go look at a house that they are thinking about buying and then give them my opinion of the repairs needed to the house and a ball park estimate to do them. Almost every "flip" house is a mess that should be avoided. Rentals are another nightmare on repairs. Quick, cheap and poorly done. And lastly, I've never seen a window company do a good job on replacing windows, so there are always issues on those houses. The kids they hire are paid by how fast they are, so they cut corners, and rarely stay with the job long enough to develop any pride in what they do.

 

[Beltzington]

HCJtractor - Thanks for the photos, you did a great job, scary how closely your window and brick match mine. I am a bit confused I thought you said you didn't remove any bricks when you replaced the window so how did you use a flanged window? "I used a new construction window with a flange."

My original thought of using glass blocks was to have them flush with the shower tile as shown in the attached picture, however more research and thought I don't think that will be as easy as I hoped and I really would prefer not to have a sill on the shower side.

I am leaning toward framing, insulating and tiling over the window on the inside. For the outside I will remove the glass window, screw ZIP sheathing on the inside of the existing frame and cover that with some type of decorative art, I like the map idea, keeping the existing brick opening as a "frame." Worst case if this doesn't work or look good I can remove the brick, old window frame, and rebrick over the hole. This will allow me to manage both projects separately and get the bathroom finished first.

Answers to previous questions
- Bathroom will have a big ventilation fan and light directly over the shower
- House is 30-years old

 

[HCJtractor]

I've found that when a home owner does a project, and they want to do it well, it is usually done VERY WELL. For me, I try to do what my clients want done, so if they want the window in the shower, I'll do everything possible to seal it in as many layers as I can. But I don't want to leave the window in, and I will talk to them about what can go wrong, and what I've seen in other homes. It's about 50/50 on those who take them out, and seal up the opening.

In your case, based on the quality of your finish work, I would guess that you sealed your window up as good as possible, and as long at your caulking remains in place, you should never have any issues.

The ones that I think do the worse jobs are the house flippers who are only concerned with appearances to sell it quickly. I charge $100 to clients to go look at a house that they are thinking about buying and then give them my opinion of the repairs needed to the house and a ball park estimate to do them. Almost every "flip" house is a mess that should be avoided. Rentals are another nightmare on repairs. Quick, cheap and poorly done. And lastly, I've never seen a window company do a good job on replacing windows, so there are always issues on those houses. The kids they hire are paid by how fast they are, so they cut corners, and rarely stay with the job long enough to develop any pride in what they do.

Thanks Eddie. Yes, I agree as the homeowner/renovator, I went overboard in most cases. Plus I’m a perfectionist by nature. I worked on this old house for almost two years, gutted it completely. Replaced 100 feet of rotten rim joists with pressure treated 2x10, new piers and flooring system, and everything new except for exterior walls basically. But I’m off subject, so Ill shut up. Thanks for reply. Always enjoy your posts and comments, by the way.

 

[HCJtractor]

HCJtractor - Thanks for the photos, you did a great job, scary how closely your window and brick match mine. I am a bit confused I thought you said you didn't remove any bricks when you replaced the window so how did you use a flanged window? "I used a new construction window with a flange."

My original thought of using glass blocks was to have them flush with the shower tile as shown in the attached picture, however more research and thought I don't think that will be as easy as I hoped and I really would prefer not to have a sill on the shower side.

I am leaning toward framing, insulating and tiling over the window on the inside. For the outside I will remove the glass window, screw ZIP sheathing on the inside of the existing frame and cover that with some type of decorative art, I like the map idea, keeping the existing brick opening as a "frame." Worst case if this doesn't work or look good I can remove the brick, old window frame, and rebrick over the hole. This will allow me to manage both projects separately and get the bathroom finished first.

Answers to previous questions
- Bathroom will have a big ventilation fan and light directly over the shower
- House is 30-years old

Your plan certainly will work. By having the inside completely tiled, it’s never going to present a problem. And outside, your plan to camouflage the opening with artwork should look great. Sounds like a good plan.
My old framing was weird, not done by today’s standards. Once I removed the old windows, I could access the underlying framing, slightly modify the size, attach the flange, tuck in waterproof tape as good as I could, cover it all with PVC trim, and caulk it very carefully.
So the silicone caulk is only real barrier, but it’s all I could do. I don’t have any pictures of the installation. Guess time will tell if my method works.

But with your house only 30years old, and the brick probably still available, altering the brick and making any change blend in shouldn’t be that hard to do, if you decide to do it another way. I just couldn’t find brick even the same size, much less color or mortar.
Post some pictures when you’re done. Good luck!

 

[Gem99ultra]

I have one, and wish I didn't. Cleverly covered up inside with shutter paneling. Sure - you "can" do it, but it's sure not recommended.

Coincidentally, Handy Man mag shows a good presentation of what you might expect by covering a hidden window.