replacement geothermal heat pump

/ replacement geothermal heat pump #1  

irvingj

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
3,610
Location
Etna, NH
Tractor
2007 MF GC2310 TLB
My old (23 years!) hand-made heat pump finally quit a few weeks ago.... Back when we were still getting snow!

Well, the replacement's here, and is now being installed. Should be completed & ready for testing later today. I think I'm gonna say "ouch!" when the bill comes in, but Water Furnace is supposed to be a good brand.

Third pic is the original; new one's next larger size in BTU, but also larger period! Certainly looks like it would be a LOT easier to work on, at least- lots more space inside for sure!
 

Attachments

  • DSC02837.JPG
    DSC02837.JPG
    156.6 KB · Views: 430
  • DSC02838.JPG
    DSC02838.JPG
    148.6 KB · Views: 598
  • Heat pump 11:08.JPG
    Heat pump 11:08.JPG
    152.1 KB · Views: 432
/ replacement geothermal heat pump #2  
My old (23 years!) hand-made heat pump finally quit a few weeks ago.... Back when we were still getting snow!

Well, the replacement's here, and is now being installed. Should be completed & ready for testing later today. I think I'm gonna say "ouch!" when the bill comes in, but Water Furnace is supposed to be a good brand.

Third pic is the original; new one's next larger size in BTU, but also larger period! Certainly looks like it would be a LOT easier to work on, at least- lots more space inside for sure!

We have a Water Furnace that's ten years old. I consider the Water Furnace brand as the Cadillac. Yours' sure does has a super jumbo size air filter on the side of it. I can see the twinkle in the salesman's eye when you ask for the price on this puppy!
 
/ replacement geothermal heat pump #3  
Is that the Synergy 3D model? Looks just like ours except ours is red.
We put one in our new house last summer.

EDIT: Nevermind, that must be the Envision which I see looks the same but is blue.
 
/ replacement geothermal heat pump
  • Thread Starter
#4  
Yep, Envision series.

It's quite a bit larger than I expected; my old one was around 2.5 tons, I think... got a solid 24,000 BTU figure based on water loop TD and GPM, then add internal heat, etc. I always felt it was a tad toward the marginal side, however; it'd do the job in the winter, but it ran a lot and I alsways felt better helping it out with the woodstove during the really cold spells, so I asked for a larger unit.

What was sent to me is 42,000 BTU :eek:-- I just hope it's not too big. Right now I'm in the process of ripping out the old 30-amp circuit and replacing with the --now-- necessary 40-amp circuit.:mad:

Oh, well.... it's only been about 25 years since I was in HVAC- it does come back, but I'd hate to have to pay me by the hour!!:laughing:
 
/ replacement geothermal heat pump
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Here it is in its "dress blues" as it were...

Water loop repaired, flushed, charged & tested with temp 115V hook-up, 8.2GPM; DHW loop completed & tied in, ductwork also tied in. This unit has an internal circulator pump for the DHW desuperheater, so my old Grundfos on that side had to be pulled out....

Just waiting for the electric now.

Man, I forgot how much fun it is to work with #8 4-conductor wire!
 

Attachments

  • DSC02842.JPG
    DSC02842.JPG
    140.5 KB · Views: 356
  • DSC02841.JPG
    DSC02841.JPG
    143.1 KB · Views: 319
  • DSC02840.JPG
    DSC02840.JPG
    152.9 KB · Views: 261
/ replacement geothermal heat pump #6  
We replaced a 15 year old Hydro-Heat unit last year with the same Water Furnace unit (Envision) that you have. I also purchase the hot water heater option and after seeing your pictures -- I need to get it hooked up.
The Geo unit is great both winter and summer. I assume you also have the 2-stage compressor.
We live approx 40 miles from the Water Furnace plant in Fort Wayne and I pick-up the unit for our contractor at the plant. It's a busy place.
Water Furnace is proud of that air filter. It is 30X32X2 model PWG-2. It is actually two 30X16X2 filters taper together.
Do you run with the cold air return open as shown? We use duct work to bring return air back to the filter from 3 different room locations.

One final note -- I see you have a Jetta TDI. We have had two. Current 2006 just turned 70K and we love it. Overall average 43mpg. Interstate driving 50+
 
/ replacement geothermal heat pump #7  
Here it is in its "dress blues" as it were...

Water loop repaired, flushed, charged & tested with temp 115V hook-up, 8.2GPM; DHW loop completed & tied in, ductwork also tied in. This unit has an internal circulator pump for the DHW desuperheater, so my old Grundfos on that side had to be pulled out....

Just waiting for the electric now.

Man, I forgot how much fun it is to work with #8 4-conductor wire!

The desuperheater sometimes seems to be blown off as an over rated accessory. It's not. The comfort of the even water heating, quick recovery, and low wear and tear on the water heater is pretty remarkable with the desuperheater.
 
/ replacement geothermal heat pump
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Mr. Wilson-- yes, it does have the desuperheater. My old unit, which was a custom-made one-off thing, also had a full condensing coil in addition to the desuperheater, so it had the capability of doing nothing but make hot water. I decided not to go for that additional option on the Water Furnace, but to stick with the desuperheater.

I'll admit it was very nice to know that, during A/C, house heat was being put directly into the DHW system, but it did add another level of complexity. Further, due to the nature of the system, refrigerant condensing temp in the winter was actually less than you'd normally keep your hot water at, so the unit would constantly go back & forth between hot water and house heat and never shut off: After getting water temp up to 125 or so, as soon as house heat was called for heat from the hot water tank would migrate through the desuperheater loop to the cooler refrigerant; as soon as house heat was satisfied, water temp had dropped..... and so on.

My solution was to set DHW t-stat as low as it would go (85+/-). The desuperheater, during the heating season, would keep the tank right around 90. When I wanted showers, laundry, etc., I just turned on the upper element in the water heater. Only took about 15 minutes to bring it up to 125. I'll do the same with the new one. As Whistlepig pointed out, the desuperheater really does work. As the unit I purchased already has a built-in circulator pump for the desuperheater I had to pull my old one, so you might be all set in that regard. Otherwise, it's just a matter of hooking up a loop to your existing water heater. I used the bottom drain and the hole from the lower element for my loop. You may notice that I also oversized both the expansion tank and the water heater- both are 80-gallon.

Yes, I run the return open like that; I had originally planned to duct it, but then realized that it was great for air circulation, not just for the house but also for the basement. Really cuts down on moisture build-up --and sometimes condensation-- on the cellar walls & in the corners, and allowed me to pull warm air from the basement from the woodstove to augment heat during really cold periods. I also have a whole-house heat recovery ventilator that brings fresh, warmed outside air into the basement, which is also picked up by the heat pump air intake. (Man, that's a lot of "also"s!)

This is my first TDI, the first NEW car I've ever bought for myself (wife gets the new ones...:D), and my second diesel- had an 82 Peugeot 504D wagon for a few years. I became convinced of the desirability of diesel quite a few years ago; even once investigated replacing the 307 V8 in my 72 Blazer with a diesel-- and was told it wasn't possible; the truck would shake itself apart... this was obviously before diesel in light trucks & cars caught on in the US, back in 1975 or so....

Mine's an 05 with the PD engine. Only has 65K on it now, but gets similar mileage- on a road trip, if the A/C's not on, it'll do 50 (with A/C 45-48); around town about 42-45. Good for around 850 miles on a full tank.:thumbsup: Love that!
 

Attachments

  • DSC02843.JPG
    DSC02843.JPG
    155.6 KB · Views: 188
  • DSC02844.JPG
    DSC02844.JPG
    154.8 KB · Views: 176
/ replacement geothermal heat pump #9  
wow, that is one big unit: i bet that makes it kinda hard to install in an existing home that folks like me didn't think about allowing the kind of space required?? how loud is that going to be when the compressor is running?
heehaw
 
/ replacement geothermal heat pump #10  
Heehaw,
I've got basically the same unit as irvingj, when it's running it really pretty quiet. The only time it's loud (and I say that lightly) is right when the compressor actually kicks in and that's only for about a second.
These units are pretty well closed up and sound insulated pretty good.
 
/ replacement geothermal heat pump #11  
/ replacement geothermal heat pump
  • Thread Starter
#12  
I'm hoping --and I bet it HAS to be-- quieter than my old unit- this thing uses a scroll compressor.

Kinda like the difference between a pistion engine and a turbine: things only rotate one direction, no reversing of pistons. It should be quieter!

On the other hand, I thought I was getting the 2-stage compressor model, but apparently not; what I have is the single-speed compressor, but with a 3-speed fan which is controlled by the unit's "computer."

Still have to complete electrical connection to my existing main water loop pumps. Unfortunately, though the unit has an internal relay for this, it's 230V; my pumps are 120V.... (Must be why the electric guru wanted to see a neutral in there!)

After that, all that's left is the t-stat. Since I'm doing most of the electric myself, after school, after lawn-mowing, after...etc. etc. it's taking some time. Fortunately, the weather's been cooperating- for the most part! It's been a bit chilly lately-- I'd run the woodstove, but the chimney REALLY needs to be cleaned out first!

"Are we having fun yet?"
 
/ replacement geothermal heat pump #13  
the reason i am always concerned about he sound level, is we have a gas furnace in a hall closet, an when the blower comes on, you better have the remote handy cause you ain't gonna hear the tv while its running: brand name is Payne: one of the high eff models, but it sure is loud: an it appears to be just the blower motor that is putting out the high sound level:
also where i worked had a geothermal system: a 6 ton unit that only lasted about 7 years an had to be replaced: the replacement was unbareably loud: don't remember the brand but sure convinced me that all geothermal units are not created equal
heehaw
 
/ replacement geothermal heat pump
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Well- After a false start of sorts, it was discovered that the unit delivered to me (42K BTU) WAS in fact too big.

Yesterday it was pulled out and a 30,000 BTU unit installed. When I got home it was up & running.

Man, is that thing QUIET!!! Compared to my old one, I can't even hear it! From upstairs, I can't even hear the fan, in fact one has to stand directly in front of the filter to really hear it:eek:.

Preliminary numbers are in:

In A/C mode--
TD across the coil: 20+ (old one: 15-18, for an increase of 25%)
Run load amps: 7.8 (old one: 11.8, for a decrease of 34%)
COP -estimated- 4.5 (old one: 3.25, for an increase of 38+%)

This thing is rated at between 4 and 5 COP, so I used 4.5....

SO: it certainly appears that I'm getting a substantial INCREASE in performance, with a substantial DECREASE in electric consumption.... and I can hardly hear the thing!!!:D:D

What's not to like? ---Happy Camper in NH!
(PS-- Guess that #8 wire ought to be able to handle it OK....:laughing:)
 

Attachments

  • 30K unit-1.JPG
    30K unit-1.JPG
    151.5 KB · Views: 95
  • 30K unit-2.JPG
    30K unit-2.JPG
    145.6 KB · Views: 101
/ replacement geothermal heat pump #15  
Glad to hear it's all up and running good! :drink:
 
/ replacement geothermal heat pump
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Yep! Just in time for the summer's first "heat wave" up here! (88 or so downtown, around 80+ up here on the hill...)
 
/ replacement geothermal heat pump #17  
What's the blue under the unit? Is it set on foam board?
 
/ replacement geothermal heat pump #18  
It's pretty hot here today. Our geothermal is purring away. We won't notice the difference in our electric bill. It will be less than $10.00 a month difference for the hot weather months.
 
/ replacement geothermal heat pump
  • Thread Starter
#19  
buckeyefarmer- yes, that's 2" styrofoam. The new, smaller unit was also shorter. You'll notice the transisiton in the discharge duct that was added, to couple with the one they had on the larger unit. As the new heat pump was still a bit short, they raised it 2" with the foam board.

It actually makes a good vibration isolator-- I had some under my old one, too.

Incidentally, that variable speed high-efficiency fan is hardly sucking any juice at all! I'm leaving the fan on continuously at this point; when I went to check it with my ol' Sperry clamp-on, on the lowest amp scale --6 amps-- the needle was hardly deflected at all, just enough to see it move. Half an amp maybe?? Wow!

Also, that amp reading for the "whole" unit in A/C was on the heavy leg --the one that has the two 120V circulator pumps on it; the other leg was registering only around 5 amps, and keep in mind this unit is 30,000 BTU where my old one was 24,000 BTU...

I just can't believe how much more efficient this Water Furnace unit appears to be. Also very well constructed- somebody paid a lot of attention to detail when it was built; very neat.

So I guess at this --admittedly early-- stage, I'm extremely pleased with the machine.
 
/ replacement geothermal heat pump #20  
if you get a chance, pick up a TED1001 or the newer 5000 series energy monitor: with the software you can really keep up with energy usage an what its costing you:
who decided the first unit was to big?? an how did they figure that out?
heehaw
 
 
Top