Requesting advice on backup generator

[selfsufficient]

My wife has told me, in no uncertain terms, that I will have a backup generator installed or she will find someone to install one.

Here's what I think are the key factors I have to consider:

• We both work from home much of the time, but no longer have phone service, and can't get a cellular signal. That means our only connection to the outside world is Starlink. I have UPSs on key components so that we have about 20 minutes to let people know the power has gone down.
• Work is the primary concern. It's no problem for us to deal with a day without power, but it's generally related to a big snow storm, which means we can't leave to go to the office, and can't even let people know why we aren't responding.
• I have installed a monitoring system in the main electrical panel and have been monitoring for a while. We never exceed about 11kW, and only hit that when the hot tub is running (about 4.5kW by itself).
• House is 200amp service, but we don't have air conditioning and use propane for range/oven and boiler (hot water/heat). Electic dryer, but no reason to run the dryer while on the generator. Jet pump for water pressure.
• We live in a very remote area, so outages are "common." I'd estimate an average of about once per month. Sometimes the outage only lasts a few minutes, but at least once or twice a year we'll go down for 6-8 hours, or even more.
• Because we're in such a remote area, getting someone out to handle any kind of service is a real problem.
• There's not really a place to put a propane tank anywhere near where power enters the house. Plus we're remote enough that if we did run out of propane, a delivery might take days or weeks to get here.
• We get lots of snow, so I must have plenty of diesel on hand for the tractor. We've never had a situation where I ran out of diesel and couldn't get out to get more.
• We plan to be here for at least another 20 years and expect the situation is more likely to get worse than to get better.

I have a new Kubota skid steer, so I have a dealer, and I trust Kubota engines, so I'm looking at the Kubota GL14000. I believe it's big enough for my needs, and I think a water-cooled Kubota diesel engine is likely to outlive me. I also really like the fact that I could just use the forks to pick it up and put it on a trailer to take it to the dealer if there was a problem, instead of having to get a service person out.

Problem is that the Kubota looks like it will be around double the cost of a more "normal" backup generator from Generac, etc. Would you try to talk me out of or into buying the Kubota?

The other issue is the transfer switch. My preference would actually be a manual interlock. Many outages are brief and/or overnight. If the power goes out for 10 minutes, overnight, I'd rather just sleep through it. Also, it seems very common for the power to go on and off serveral times before settling back down. I'd rather just start the generator when the power goes off and let it run until I can switch back to line power without interrupting anything. And if we're not here when the power goes out, everything will be fine until we get back.

Problem there is that I'm not always there, and I'm not entirely sure my wife even CAN be trained to start the generator and flip the switch. In the grand scheme of things, the cost of an automatic transfer switch isn't that big a deal, so do you think I'm over-estimating the advantages of being in control?

 

[workinonit]

I read all of that and the key thing I got out of it is: No air conditioning??

Just get a standby 12kW with an auto transfer switch and be done with it. You can set time delays on it for power flashes and control it remotely. I'm pretty sure you would want it active when you are away in case of a long outage.

 

[grsthegreat]

Im a fan of generac air cooled units, but if you cant or dont want propane, id probably go with the kubota your looking at.

If you went with a liquid cooled diesel generac, youl be spending as much as the kubota more than likely.

You can easily train the wife to run a generator. The bota will be electric start, and all the wife would need to do is flip a panel interlock device. Even a kid could do that.


The interlock looks something like this, but varies depending on panel make.

 

[ericm979]

I think some of the automatic transfer switches can have the outage time that it takes to fire up the generator adjusted.

Diesel generators have been more expensive than home propane generators for a long time. A water cooled diesel engine costs more to build than the air cooled propane ones which are basically bigger lawnmower engines.

If there's no place for a propane tank, is there a place for a diesel tank? Diesel has more BTUS per gallon and is easier to store as its not under pressure but you'd still need a sizeable tank to get through an outage where you can't get out to get more fuel. You're less likely to be able to find someone to deliver diesel so you may have to buy a transfer tank and haul it into town to get fuel yourself.

We're in a steep mountainous area and everyone is on propane. They find some pretty inventive places to put the tanks. As long as the driver can get the truck close enough to haul the hose to the tank.

I've had a manual system for a long time and even with a printed checklist and periodic training my wife would rather not deal with it. If you can come up with an automated way to run it now, you'll be thankful later. I see utilities in other states following California utilities lead in practices like EPSS and PSPS that result in more outages but let them skimp on maintenance. I don't think that utility regulation will be anything but worse in the forseeable future. Outages will likely be more frequent and longer.

Solar and batteries can be a good backup system if you can afford them. If you get extended outages like we do then a way to top off batteries with a generator is a good idea. If you have an inclination to go solar, now is the time to do it. It is likely that tarriffs on components will increase and the tax rebate may go away.

 

[Darth_DMack]

We have a Generac 26KW home generator, runs on propane. I have a 1,000 gallon propane tank (buried) that provides gas to my generator and my house. Our appliances are all propane, so there's that.

Our power fluctuates frequently, so the generator has already proven itself a few times over.

It takes about 30 seconds once utility power is interrupted, for the generator to kick on and activate the transfer switch. The 26KW will run our entire home, AC and all.

We too, have Starlink, and my wife works from home. The generator "exercises" every Tuesday morning at 0800. Absolutely zero issues with it.

Our home is new construction, and we had the entire electrical system built around being able to partition things off if needed, to run just the bare minimum in case of long term outage.

So far, the longest we have had it run is about 6 hours, during the last hurricane. Money well spent!

 

[selfsufficient]

I think some of the automatic transfer switches can have the outage time that it takes to fire up the generator adjusted.

Diesel generators have been more expensive than home propane generators for a long time. A water cooled diesel engine costs more to build than the air cooled propane ones which are basically bigger lawnmower engines.

If there's no place for a propane tank, is there a place for a diesel tank? Diesel has more BTUS per gallon and is easier to store as its not under pressure but you'd still need a sizeable tank to get through an outage where you can't get out to get more fuel. You're less likely to be able to find someone to deliver diesel so you may have to buy a transfer tank and haul it into town to get fuel yourself.

We're in a steep mountainous area and everyone is on propane. They find some pretty inventive places to put the tanks. As long as the driver can get the truck close enough to haul the hose to the tank.

I've had a manual system for a long time and even with a printed checklist and periodic training my wife would rather not deal with it. If you can come up with an automated way to run it now, you'll be thankful later. I see utilities in other states following California utilities lead in practices like EPSS and PSPS that result in more outages but let them skimp on maintenance. I don't think that utility regulation will be anything but worse in the forseeable future. Outages will likely be more frequent and longer.

Solar and batteries can be a good backup system if you can afford them. If you get extended outages like we do then a way to top off batteries with a generator is a good idea. If you have an inclination to go solar, now is the time to do it. It is likely that tarriffs on components will increase and the tax rebate may go away.

This confirms a lot of what I'm thinking about. Thank you.

Since I use diesel in several pieces of equipment, I have a transfer tank, and can refuel a generator when needed. And I know for a fact that I can get in and out to get diesel more easily than I can get a big propane truck in to deliver. Even in the summer it can take several days to get a delivery, and they won't even attempt my road in the winter!

 

[Topzide]

Check these out; www.centralgagenerator.com/category/Generator-Sets
All Kubota gensets under $10k and up to 26Kw! Something else to look at.

 

[dodge man]

I think whatever you get a water cooled diesel is the way to go. I say this because you always have that fuel on hand. They cost more than a propane one but in your case diesel seems the logical route.

 

[ponytug]

@selfsufficient Welcome to TBN! (If you update your location in your profile, you will probably get more specific advice.)

+1 on the Kubota; you like the dealer, have some familiarity with the engines, and you already stock diesel. If there is any doubt about your wife wanting to play with generators and transfer switches, get an automatic switch. As others have pointed out modern generators have the ability to delay transfer to backup. I think the time delay bears some thought as line flickers aren't doing anything nice for the home electronics.

A couple of things that you might want to consider in addition;

• I would consider a whole house backup battery that could be charged from the generator or grid, or at least enough battery power in your UPS units for Starlink and your computers to easily ride through any transfer time, plus a 300% (+/-) safety factor for the inevitable winter storm that flickers five or ten times before the power gives out.
• I would also suggest upgrading to online (full time, pure sine wave) UPS systems, if you uaven't already done that.
• I would think about how to keep your diesel dry, and gel free, as it sounds as if some of your needs are winter storms.
• I would also suggest considering a heat pump dryer.
• Regardless, any place that gets line flickers, is likely also getting surges, so you might also want to add a whole house surge protector.

Finally, I would suggest that you don't put the generator too close to the house. I think "quiet diesel" backup generators are really "quieter" diesel generators, not silent generators. I think that it is better to put it farther away, and use heavier gauge wire to offset any power losses.

All the best,

Peter

 

[LittleBill21]

is it really just starlink you care about. I would consider a solar generator, or even a inverter battery setup. I feel like a generator is not needed if your main concern is simply the internet.