Returning batteries for warranty claim

[CliffordK]

Thats what Napa is doing. I will find out today.

I had (3) new Napa batteries installed in my IH dumptruck last year and they went dead. Turns out one was bad and took the other 2 down to the point where they wouldnt turn the truck over. The dead one was replaced and the other 2 made a come back.

IMO, one battery is bad and took the other one out.
I need more info.
They couldn’t give me an answer today because they could only charge one of the 2 batteries (probably to tell me everything is fine)

Good thing I don’t need the tractor right now.

Look up series and parallel on batteries.

In series (24V, 36V), one bad cell will make it so nothing works. But I don't think it hurts the other batteries.
In parallel (12V), the system should be more tolerant for different battery capacities. However, a bad battery could potentially damage the other batteries in the system.

Ideally I would replace all the batteries at the same time, although you may be OK if you have a good battery that is only 6 months old.

My biggest problem with tractor batteries is that my tractor has a pull kill switch, and I will occasionally kill it and forget to turn off the ignition. Just a few deep discharges on the battery can kill it.

 

[pmsmechanic]

We were told in school 2.2 volts to a cell. 12 volt battery = 6 cells so you should have 13.2 volts just to hold the battery charged. If you want the battery charged you need more than 13.2 volts. 13.4 volts would be within the margin of error on a lot of volt meters.

A just started tractor should be putting out about 15.8 volts or more and then slowly drop to about 14.2 - 14.5 volts. I don't like to see any less than 13.8 volts after a motor has run for several hours. Now a days there are so many computers on tractors that 14.2 would probably be considered a minimum voltage.

 

[Hay Dude]

Well, I got the batteries back. One is 901CCA, the other is 876CCA. Both putting out a little over 12V.
There NAPA tester says “good”. I bet the one with 876CCA is the trouble maker.

I put them back in the tractor and she spins pretty good, but won’t fire.

Guess I got some more diggin to do….

It’s always something…

 

[John_Mc]

They’re tryin to tell me 12V and 700CCA on a 900CCA battery is considered “good”.

When the tractor is not running, I see 12V.
When the tractor is (jump) started, I see 12.7 then 12.9, then 13.1, then 13.4, etc.

The Napa dealer is blowing smoke. 12V is not "good" on a 12 V battery at rest. That's actually close to a 50% depth of discharge for a standard flooded lead-acid battery. Most battery manufacturers consider that fully discharged, since they don't recommend running it below 50% DOD.

One of Napa's own articles states "If the voltmeter reads between 12.65 volts and 12.77 volts, then the battery is fully charged. Anything less than a full charge means you need to continue to look for an answer."

My suggestion: remove the battery from your tractor and charge it fully. Disconnect the charge, let it sit for a day then check the resting voltage. A flooded lead acid battery should be somewhere at least 12.6 volts. (an AGM battery should be higher). The reason for removing it from your tractor is to eliminate the possibility that something in your tractor is draining the battery even when it's off. A battery will naturally self discharge over time, but that should be a matter of weeks or months, not days. If it's dropping noticeably each day, you have a battery problem. If the battery is holding steady, you probably have a problem with the tractor.

BTW: leaving a battery in a partially discharged state is a great way to kill the battery prematurely through a process known as "sulfation". You may be able to resurrect the battery using a smart charger with a desulfation feature. However, heavily sulfated batteries seldom come back.

 

[John_Mc]

From another Napa article:

Take a voltmeter and see what you’re dealing with. A healthy battery will give you a reading of 12.4 to 12.7 volts across both terminals. If the voltage is well below this, the battery will have trouble turning the starter to crank the engine. You’ll want to hit this range before you try to start the car again.

If your battery charge doesn’t approach this number or it drops quickly from it even after the following fixes, you’ll likely be making a trip to the store for a replacement.

I love it when you can use the company's own info against them

 

[jyoutz]

Your voltage regulator is bad. Not shutting off

Aren’t voltage regulators inside the alternator case nowadays?

 

[pmsmechanic]

Aren’t voltage regulators inside the alternator case nowadays?

Sometimes but not always. Sometimes they are in the ECM. Ya great place for that. If the voltage regulator doesn't work, replace ECM.

Sometimes if you have a smart electrical shop they can splice a normal regulator into the wiring harness saving the cost of an ECM.

 

[Hay Dude]

The Napa dealer is blowing smoke. 12V is not "good" on a 12 V battery at rest. That's actually close to a 50% depth of discharge for a standard flooded lead-acid battery. Most battery manufacturers consider that fully discharged, since they don't recommend running it below 50% DOD.

One of Napa's own articles states "If the voltmeter reads between 12.65 volts and 12.77 volts, then the battery is fully charged. Anything less than a full charge means you need to continue to look for an answer."

My suggestion: remove the battery from your tractor and charge it fully. Disconnect the charge, let it sit for a day then check the resting voltage. A flooded lead acid battery should be somewhere at least 12.6 volts. (an AGM battery should be higher). The reason for removing it from your tractor is to eliminate the possibility that something in your tractor is draining the battery even when it's off. A battery will naturally self discharge over time, but that should be a matter of weeks or months, not days. If it's dropping noticeably each day, you have a battery problem. If the battery is holding steady, you probably have a problem with the tractor.

BTW: leaving a battery in a partially discharged state is a great way to kill the battery prematurely through a process known as "sulfation". You may be able to resurrect the battery using a smart charger with a desulfation feature. However, heavily sulfated batteries seldom come back.

I have their little printouts from Napas battery tester, but misplaced them. If I find them, I will share the printouts, but the batteries were a little over 12V after full charging, but the printout said “ok”.
I always thought 12V was too low.

 

[grsthegreat]

 

[oldballs]

Sometimes but not always. Sometimes they are in the ECM. Ya great place for that. If the voltage regulator doesn't work, replace ECM.

Sometimes if you have a smart electrical shop they can splice a normal regulator into the wiring harness saving the cost of an ECM.

This is now beyond my ability....physically and technically......but I get the ideas....Off to a real automotive shop this is going. ....besides .....It needs to replace the OE serpentine belt as well.

Thanks for the allowing the interruption on Hay Dude's NAPA issue.

Cheers,
Mike