Rim Guard --> Beet Juice

MikePA · Nov 2, 2003

Fluid in Tires: Most of the fluid's weight would be below the center of the wheel 
In filling a tire with fluid, how do you get more than 50% of the total weight added below the center line of the wheel? I realize that the tire might deflect a bit and allow slightly more volume below the center line of the wheel than above it, but how can you say 'most of the weight would be below the center of the wheel? Just trying to understand.

I agree that wheel weights would be 50/50 and they would not lower the CG as much as fluid since the fluid would be lower.

 (2) Using fluid is cheaper than purchasing wheel weights. 
Depends. Fluid would be cheaper than factory wheel weights, but something like EZWeights, which allows the use of standard exercise weights at 30 cents per pound (used) is pretty cheap additional weight.

 (3) Assuming 200 to 300 lbs of weight, the fluid would be much easier to work with than the weights. 
How do you mean 'work with'? With wheel weights, you can take them off when you need to work on the tire/wheel. Fluid, unless you drain it, is always there. Working with a tire filled with fluid is quite a chore.

PineRidge · Nov 2, 2003

Fluid in Tires: Most of the fluid's weight would be below the center of the wheel (and below the tractor's center of gravity as well). 
If I understand correctly most guys fill their tires 75%, that relates to 25% above the axle.

 Wheels Weights: The weight of the wheel weights would be distributed such that there would be an equal amount of weight above and below the center of the wheel. 
I buy this statement 100% However I also add 300 pounds to a 3 point hanger, below the center line of the rear axle. Once again easy on and easy off.

 Conclusion: Using fluid in tires for additional weight will be more beneficial in lowering the tractor's center-of-gravity thus making the tractor more stable and safer. 

My gut instinct is telling me go cast iron.

OVERALL WEIGHT ISSUES:

I believe the following statements to be true, but don't have any data readily available to back up the statements: 

 (1) I believe that you can increase the weight of a tractor wheel more when using fluid than you can using wheel weights. 

10 pounds of beet juice vs 10 pounds of cast iron still equals 10 pounds.
 (2) Using fluid is cheaper than purchasing wheel weights. 

I had 300 pounds of cast iron rear wheel weights added at a buck a pound.
 (3) Assuming 200 to 300 lbs of weight, the fluid would be much easier to work with than the weights.. 

I can very easily remove the weights before removing the tire itself. Each weight weighs 100 pounds and my floor jack will get them off without lifting. Your filled tire is a hernia maker waiting to happen, it will always be heavy unless you drain it, Most folks aren't equipped to do that themselves.

Kelvin · Nov 2, 2003

( In filling a tire with fluid, how do you get more than 50% of the total weight added below the center line of the wheel? )

How can it be any other way? I'm not sure what you're missing. If you fill a tire with fluid to 100% capacity, then you could say that 50% would be above the center of the wheel and 50% would be below the center of the wheel. If you only fill a tire to 75% capacity, then the missing 25% has to come from the top (assuming that (1) the law of gravity is still in effect and (2) the fluid is heavier than air, which it usually is).

( (2) Using fluid is cheaper than purchasing wheel weights.
Depends. Fluid would be cheaper than factory wheel weights, but something like EZWeights, which allows the use of standard exercise weights at 30 cents per pound (used) is pretty cheap additional weight. )

I did assume factory wheel weights with my statement.

( How do you mean 'work with'? With wheel weights, you can take them off when you need to work on the tire/wheel. )

I will say up front that I have never personally installed wheel weights nor have I personally installed fluid in a tire. I am about to pay the local Farmer's Co-Op to load fluid in my tires, and even then I still won't be able to say that I have persoally installed fluid in my tires. With regard to the weights that you mention, how heavy are the weights that you say you can take off? In my mind, if they are heavy enough to be effective (200-300 lbs was my guess) then they'd be a real pain to install. If you are using multiple weights, then that may not be as great of a pain.

BOTTOM LINE: For me, having a lower center of gravity for enhanced safety is my main reason for wanting fluid in my tires. For my 12.4-16 rear Ag tires, I think that I might could handle the tire loaded with fluid if I had to. My negative opinions about wheel weights may have been too strong given my lack of personal experience.

Kelvin · Nov 2, 2003

( I can very easily remove the weights before removing the tire itself. Each weight weighs 100 pounds and my floor jack will get them off without lifting. )

Based upon your personal experience, I will retract my statement about the fluid being easier to work with. My "opinion" about weights being more difficult to work with was based upon some other tractor guy's conversations several years ago when I was very new to the tractor world. That is obviously one of the "it depends on several things" (type weights, tire & wheel size, etc).

I still plan to stick with the fluid in my tires because my main desire is to lower the tractor's center of gravity. But since I don't necessarily need a lot of additional weight, I had originally planned to load fluid to only 50%. One of the threads that I've responded to had a post stating that if you don't cover the wheel entirely in fluid, it is more likely to rust. Therefore, I may be forced to use 60-75% fluid in my tires, even though I don't need that much weight.

Kelvin

art · Nov 2, 2003

Let me throw something else in here! Fluid filled tires don't absorb the ground conditions as fast as when just with air. To the point that you might be better off to be several hundrd pounds lighter but yet still better off! The testing that I saw done was with radial tires on larger farm tractors but you might be better off to be a little light for overall performance.

Junkman · Nov 2, 2003

( ( In filling a tire with fluid, how do you get more than 50% of the total weight added below the center line of the wheel? )

How can it be any other way? I'm not sure what you're missing. If you fill a tire with fluid to 100% capacity, then you could say that 50% would be above the center of the wheel and 50% would be below the center of the wheel. If you only fill a tire to 75% capacity, then the missing 25% has to come from the top (assuming that (1) the law of gravity is still in effect and (2) the fluid is heavier than air, which it usually is).

 )

In this particular instance if the tire is filled with 75% fluid, then 2/3 would be below the center line of the wheel/tire and 1/3 above since air for all practical purposed doesn't weigh anything.

I have used wheel weights in the past and I also have used filled wheels and tires. I definitely like the convenience of the filled tires better. My tractor has provisions for adding wheel weight to the rim, but Kubota advises against them in the owner manual. I have never been able to get a reason for this. I know that Kubota doesn't offer wheel weights for the BX nor do they sell filled tires..... so their reasoning can't be financial...

JerryG · Nov 2, 2003

Fluid filled tires don't absorb the ground conditions as fast as when just with air. To the point that you might be better off to be several hundrd pounds lighter but yet still better off! 
Thats right. A loaded tire doesn't conform to the ground to the extent a unloaded tire does. The fluid prevents it. Pound for pound you are better off with fewer pounds of wheel weights than with more fluid weight. Wheel weights also offer an amazing about of lateral stability, perhaps more than you would think. I have 400 lbs. of cast weights on my tractor and it made a tremendous difference.
My Weights

19th_VA · Nov 2, 2003

Maybe I have missed something but I don't see how you can get as much weight via wheel weights as you can with fluid.

And by the way, I spoke with Glen Daly several months ago and he's pretty much a one man band (at least was then). He had no website and his distribution seemed to be limited to the Northeast.

Maybe there is new information, but that is what I found back in June I think.

MikePA · Nov 3, 2003

I'm not sure what you're missing. 
I equated your use of the word 'most' with more than half.

temp · Nov 3, 2003

Hi,

One thing to keep in mind is that if you get into trouble, the fluid in the tires can slosh to the top and add to momentum to a bad situation.

On the other hand, wheel weights just stay where they are...

Still...I have loaded tires...was the easiest way for me... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif