RIP or REPair?

Sabooo · Apr 28, 2006

Hoping for some counsel for those of you that may have more experience than I in repairing old iron. The victim is a 1950ish Ferguson TO30. Been a very good tractor, and in the family's care for almost 30 years.

When I went to give it its spring oil change, I was horrified to see milky grey goop coming out of the oil pan. Hoping it was just come sort of freakish condensation issue, I changed the oil and filter. Within 15 minutes of starting it up, the oil was again Milky grey on the stick AND the oil level was rising in the pan. Something bad is happening!

You should know that this tractor has had only water in it every season for as long as I've known it. My father-in-law started this tradition, and was always dilligent to drain it out before the weather changed in Fall. Apparently, I was late this year. Have a look at the attachment on this post and the next. I pulled the valve cover praying for a freeze out plug. (notice the lovely colored oil in the corners?) Not seeing anything pushed out, I was scratching my head when I noticed some water between the headbolts. Cleaning off the grime revealed a 2" crack in the top of the head, with water still seeping out of it.

Removing the head uncovered lots more ooky oil, and also alot of (for lack of a better word) gunk in the block.

A quick look around finds me a reman cylinder head for about 700 with valves, but its in MO and I'm in PA, which will translate to probably $150 - $200 to ship via LTL. Since I can see there is an issue with contamination in the block, I am suspecting some sort of issue there too.

Is it realistic to expect that no freeze damage occurred in the block when there is obvious freeze damage to the head? I find that I'm pretty pessimistic about this, and am expecting to have to either repair (if possible) or replace the block as well.

So how about it? Is this old Fergusson worth a $3000 repair bill, or do I just chalk one up to experience and learn to mix coolant on the next machine?

The question really isn't about whether to repair or replace, I've already decided to buy another machine. My question is what to do with this old girl?

Thanks in advance for your counsel.

Sabooo · Apr 28, 2006

Another look.

JerryG · Apr 28, 2006

Take the head to a good shop to have it checked. If that is the only crack, they will be able to weld it up a cheaper than the prices that you have listed. If there were cracks in the valve seats or in the ports, it would be better to get another head, especially if there is one in the seat area.

RobertN · Apr 28, 2006

Do that first. Then if they can't weld it, check Ebay. Also, check the photo ad's and classifieds at ytmag.com

RobJ · Apr 28, 2006

On an old Int. 384 I gound out the cracked area real good, cleaned it and covered it with some epoxy. It's still holding. Since it's an old tractor the cooling system doesn't build up much pressure (old cap, few leaks, etc). They is pretty cheap to, amazing how that epoxy will stick and hold just about anything.

Good Luck, Rob

PineRidge · Apr 28, 2006

Don't scrap it, JP Weld it. Lots of ideas, testimonials, and applications here

Will say that I used JB Weld myself to repair a crack (actually it was a small hole) in a water pump casting. It held for months until I could find a replacement pump. Thought about leaving the repaired pump on since the epoxy was holding so well.

Hib · Apr 28, 2006

Had a cracked head on my TO30 and contacted a fellow in southern Illinois. Dang if I can remember his name or business, but I found him searching the Net. He sent me a completely refurbished head with ground valve seats and all in a wooden crate with a prepaid return postage for the bad one. Seems it cost me about $180. Mine was cracked thru the valve seats and the ole boy told me he had never seen a head yet that he could not repair. Try a search and see if ya can find him. Think I'll look and see if I can find him for you. Go to this site/forum Harry Ferguson Tractor Information you should find some help there. Good luck!

Birdhunter1 · Apr 28, 2006

I have used JB weld on a crack on a block on an International Super A one time and it sealed it up great. The crack was on the outside near the water pump on the front of the motor.

HIB, by chance was the guy in Creal Springs, IL? Thompsonville, IL?
Or would the name of the place be called Mac-Weld in Carterville, IL?

Onthesauk · Apr 28, 2006

I've been researching another alternative for a cracked block, something called stitch welding. Drill holes side by side down the length of the crack, tap, screw in a special fitting, snap off the head and then grind the whole thing smooth. Have a neighbor who has seen it done in an industrial setting and lasted over 20 years. Ask around at good machine shops. My challange is that I need it done in chassie, too expensive otherwise.

Sabooo · Apr 28, 2006

Thanks everyone for the tips - I will take the head to one of the local engine shops and see what they can do. My biggest concern is still that while the crack visible in the picture was clearly allowing water to seep out of the head, it does not account for the water into the oil unless it goes much deeper into the heart of the metal, or it is not the only fracture.

We'll let the experts have a look and see what they think of it all.